No Millennial Kingdom Is Found In Rev 20:1-6 As Many Claim?

Truth7t7

Active member
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed, by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale :)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Eternal Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
You are either grossly ignorant or simply manipulating Scripture to fit your twisted fantasies. To what do the six references to a thousand years refer to? In verse 6 above, why did you not highlight "and shall reign with him a thousand years."? And how convenient that you also ignored verses 7-10, not to mention the numerous descriptions of the MK in OT prophecy. You are a pure fake who is absolutely clueless about what is about to come upon the world as the end of this age draws to a close.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed, by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale :)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Eternal Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You don't actually pay attention to what you post, do you?

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
You don't actually pay attention to what you post, do you?

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(The Souls) (The Dead) Reign with him a non-literal thousand years in the Lords Spiritual Realm of no time, as seen in Rev 20:4-6, not mortal humans on this earth in a physical kingdom as Millenniism claims and teaches (Fact)

No Physical Kingdom On Earth?
No Physical Earthly Throne?
No Mortal Humans On Earth?

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, annid they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
You are either grossly ignorant or simply manipulating Scripture to fit your twisted fantasies. To what do the six references to a thousand years refer to? In verse 6 above, why did you not highlight "and shall reign with him a thousand years."? And how convenient that you also ignored verses 7-10, not to mention the numerous descriptions of the MK in OT prophecy. You are a pure fake who is absolutely clueless about what is about to come upon the world as the end of this age draws to a close.
There is no literal 1,000 years upon this earth seen in Rev 20:1-6

Those seen are souls and dead that are in the Lords Eternal Spiritual realm of no time, 2 Peter 3:8 one day is a thousand years (No Literal Time) for the souls or dead seen

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
(The Souls) (The Dead) Reign with him a non-literal thousand years in the Lords Spiritual Realm of no time, as seen in Rev 20:4-6, not mortal humans on this earth in a physical kingdom as Millenniism claims and teaches (Fact)

No Physical Kingdom On Earth?
No Physical Earthly Throne?
No Mortal Humans On Earth?

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, annid they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So, you're telling us that you're not among those who died prior to the return of Jesus, and were resurrected in the rapture of the church? 1 Thess 4:13-18, Luke 21:34-36, Revelation 3:7-13.

Ok. Well, you go ahead and do that.
The rest of us are among those who died prior to the resurrection of the church, and are coming back with him-- Rev 19.

Have a nice day.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
So, you're telling us that you're not among those who died prior to the return of Jesus, and were resurrected in the rapture of the church? 1 Thess 4:13-18, Luke 21:34-36, Revelation 3:7-13.

Ok. Well, you go ahead and do that.
The rest of us are among those who died prior to the resurrection of the church, and are coming back with him-- Rev 19.

Have a nice day.
Your response is a complete distortion of the scripture presented below.

Those seen below in Rev 20:4 are (Tribulation Saints) a (Future) event, they didnt receive the mark or worship the image of the (Future) Antichrist

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead are all those not mentioned as coming out of the tribulation

Rev 20:6 The first resurrection is a future event that takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming, there are (Two Resurrections) on this last day,the righteous are (Blessed) to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

Revelation 20:4-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two resurrections are seen below,the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
Your response is a complete distortion of the scripture presented below.
And as Paul told Timothy--- this is why I don't focus ONLY on your passages to build my views of biblical faith.
If I did, I'd be like you.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You see, it doesn't say--- just the scriptures you decide to use to make it fit what you think it should be.....
We're told that ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
We're told that all scripture is profitable for doctrine
We're told that all scripture is profitable for reproof
We're told that all scripture is profitable for correction
We're told that all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
We're told that these things are so for the express purpose that the man of God may be complete, and thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work.

So, that you think these few scriptures are enough to get a full, and complete picture of what G

Those seen below in Rev 20:4 are (Tribulation Saints) a (Future) event, they didnt receive the mark or worship the image of the (Future) Antichrist
So, you're saying that all the humans alive at the time of the antichrist will receive the mark of the beast, so no humans prior to that time will be resurrected, as stated in 1 Thess. 4:13-18?


Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead are all those not mentioned as coming out of the tribulation

Rev 20:6 The first resurrection is a future event that takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming, there are (Two Resurrections) on this last day,the righteous are (Blessed) to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

Revelation 20:4-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two resurrections are seen below,the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Well, telling me that if I reject what you think is the words of Jesus just tells me that you're not following Jesus.

You see, I don't have any problem with the passages you're providing here. My problem is with the way you've used them, and put them together. I'm told that the bible is 1/3 prophecy. And the small amount of of passages you've provided here don't even come close to 1/100th of the bible.
I.e., 31,102 verses in the bible. So, 1/3 of this would be over 10,000 verses. So, you've posted..... what.... a couple of dozen, at best? That's less than 0.077%.


You see, elsewhere in the bible, we're told to test all things, 1 thess. 5:21-22, and to be like the Bereans, Acts 17:11, and search the scriptures to see if the things you're claiming are true or not.

So, as I've been reading the bible for over 43 years now, I'll simply say that you've twisted the bible to fit your preconceptions, and in doing so, are excluding people who are entering the Kingdom, from doing so.

So, I have to wonder--- why would I believe you, and not what I read in the bible for myself?

Thank you, but your point is far too limited, and does not take into account the rest of the 10,343 bible verses.

Please continue to read, study, pray, and follow Jesus. When you get a more accurate picture, we can talk more.
Until then, focus on telling people the gospel, and how to walk in Grace, so obedience can grow, and people can learn to actually follow Jesus.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
So, you're saying that all the humans alive at the time of the antichrist will receive the mark of the beast, so no humans prior to that time will be resurrected, as stated in 1 Thess. 4:13-18?
That's Correct, There Is No Resurrection (Pre-Trib) Rapture Prior To The Second Coming, Last Day Resurrection.

The Church Will Be Present On Earth During The Tribulation, And (No) They Will Not Receive The Mark Or Worship The Image

The Second Coming, Last Day Resurrection, Final Judgement, There Will Be No Millennial Kingdom On Earth Following This (The End)

1.) Is The (Second Coming) seen in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below 100% Yes!

2. Is a (Resurrection Of The Believer) seen in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

3. Does this (Resurrection) take place on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 11:23-24, John 5:28-29 100% Yes!

4. Is (The Last Day) the time of (Final Judgement) as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
And as Paul told Timothy--- this is why I don't focus ONLY on your passages to build my views of biblical faith.
If I did, I'd be like you.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You see, it doesn't say--- just the scriptures you decide to use to make it fit what you think it should be.....
We're told that ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
We're told that all scripture is profitable for doctrine
We're told that all scripture is profitable for reproof
We're told that all scripture is profitable for correction
We're told that all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.
We're told that these things are so for the express purpose that the man of God may be complete, and thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work.

So, that you think these few scriptures are enough to get a full, and complete picture of what G


So, you're saying that all the humans alive at the time of the antichrist will receive the mark of the beast, so no humans prior to that time will be resurrected, as stated in 1 Thess. 4:13-18?




Well, telling me that if I reject what you think is the words of Jesus just tells me that you're not following Jesus.

You see, I don't have any problem with the passages you're providing here. My problem is with the way you've used them, and put them together. I'm told that the bible is 1/3 prophecy. And the small amount of of passages you've provided here don't even come close to 1/100th of the bible.
I.e., 31,102 verses in the bible. So, 1/3 of this would be over 10,000 verses. So, you've posted..... what.... a couple of dozen, at best? That's less than 0.077%.


You see, elsewhere in the bible, we're told to test all things, 1 thess. 5:21-22, and to be like the Bereans, Acts 17:11, and search the scriptures to see if the things you're claiming are true or not.

So, as I've been reading the bible for over 43 years now, I'll simply say that you've twisted the bible to fit your preconceptions, and in doing so, are excluding people who are entering the Kingdom, from doing so.

So, I have to wonder--- why would I believe you, and not what I read in the bible for myself?

Thank you, but your point is far too limited, and does not take into account the rest of the 10,343 bible verses.

Please continue to read, study, pray, and follow Jesus. When you get a more accurate picture, we can talk more.
Until then, focus on telling people the gospel, and how to walk in Grace, so obedience can grow, and people can learn to actually follow Jesus.
Your response has absolutely avoided my scriptural arguments below, a long story, but non responsive to the "Three" claims before your eyes, waiting?

1. Are the (Souls) of (Future) Tribulation Saints Identified specifically in Rev 20:4 of course they are 100% Yes

2. Are the (Rest Of The Dead) Identified in Rev 20:5 as believers waiting on the (Future) (First) Resurrection 100% Yes

3. Does the Resurrection Of all take place on the Last Day 100% Yes

Revelation 20:4-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, Por in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two resurrections are seen below,the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
That's Correct, There Is No Resurrection (Pre-Trib) Rapture Prior To The Second Coming, Last Day Resurrection.
Well, you go right ahead and enjoy that opinion.

Just what do you think the great tribulation period is?
According to Jeremiah 30:7, it's known as the time of Jacob's trouble.

Jer 30:7 WEB Alas, for that day is great, so that none is like it! It is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he will be saved out of it.

The next thing I find curious is that according to 1 Thessalonians 5:9, God has not appointed us to wrath. But to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.

Then, in Genesis, Abraham and God engage in a discussion regarding his nephew Lot's state, and God agrees to not judge the righteous with the wicked, which sets a precedent, which gets restated in the books of the law.

So, I'm curious why you would believe that God would judge the bride of Jesus with the world.
I can see that the unrepentant members of the church of thyatira go through. And it wouldn't be too surprising if a couple of the other churches go through, but it's quite clear that according to Luke 21:34-36, we don't HAVE to go through if we don't want to. We just need to pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape the things that are coming, and to stand before the son of man.

Then in 2 Peter 1:2-13, it's quite clear that we're given the resources and wherewithal to escape the corruption that is in this world because of lust.



The Church Will Be Present On Earth During The Tribulation, And (No) They Will Not Receive The Mark Or Worship The Image
Why?
Because God is a liar?
Do you know what the tribulation period is?

It's God's judgment on sin and the wrath he pours out on people to wake them up to what is coming.

The Second Coming, Last Day Resurrection, Final Judgement, There Will Be No Millennial Kingdom On Earth Following This (The End)
Ah. So you're an amillennialist.
Again, you enjoy that.
It's a pity you don't believe God. He says otherwise. The old testament prophets are filled to the brim with details and snippets of the coming Kingdom.
Even the disciples were inquiring of the times and seasons. I find it curious that Jesus never told them that there would be no Kingdom reign.

He just said,
It's not for you to know the times and seasons that the Father has kept in his power. Acts 1.



1.) Is The (Second Coming) seen in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below 100% Yes!

2. Is a (Resurrection Of The Believer) seen in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

3. Does this (Resurrection) take place on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 11:23-24, John 5:28-29 100% Yes!

4. Is (The Last Day) the time of (Final Judgement) as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Again, you've made a mess here.

According to Daniel, once the beginning of the tribulation is known, it's a matter of days.... 1260 to the abomination of desolation. Then another 1290 days to the coming of the Messiah. Then another 45 days, for the judgment of the world. Then the Kingdom starts. As the angel told him, blessed are those who endure to the 1335th day.

So. I find it difficult to believe that you actually understand what is taking place here.

Jesus would not be telling us that no man knows the day or hour, if it was during or after the tribulation period.

Those days and times are in fact known, once the period begins. So, Jesus telling us that the day would come as a thief, and catch the people unaware, and come as a snare to all who dwell on the earth....
These tell me otherwise.

Again, the bible passages you've provided are not the problem.

The manner in which you've used them to thread your narrative is the problem.

But, hey! If you actually want to be here, and go through the most miserable time in human history, you go right ahead.

The rest of us are more interested in making sure we're among the 5 wise virgins who have their lamps trimmed and ready for the bridegroom when he comes.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Your response has absolutely avoided my scriptural arguments below, a long story, but non responsive to the "Three" claims before your eyes, waiting?
No. I ignored, and avoided nothing of what you stated.
I made the point that your organization of those passages completely ignored the other 10,334 passages that details biblical prophecies.

1. Are the (Souls) of (Future) Tribulation Saints Identified specifically in Rev 20:4 of course they are 100% Yes

2. Are the (Rest Of The Dead) Identified in Rev 20:5 as believers waiting on the (Future) (First) Resurrection 100% Yes

3. Does the Resurrection Of all take place on the Last Day 100% Yes

Revelation 20:4-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, Por in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two resurrections are seen below,the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Well, you go right ahead and enjoy that opinion.

Just what do you think the great tribulation period is?
According to Jeremiah 30:7, it's known as the time of Jacob's trouble.

Jer 30:7 WEB Alas, for that day is great, so that none is like it! It is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he will be saved out of it.

The next thing I find curious is that according to 1 Thessalonians 5:9, God has not appointed us to wrath. But to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.

Then, in Genesis, Abraham and God engage in a discussion regarding his nephew Lot's state, and God agrees to not judge the righteous with the wicked, which sets a precedent, which gets restated in the books of the law.

So, I'm curious why you would believe that God would judge the bride of Jesus with the world.
I can see that the unrepentant members of the church of thyatira go through. And it wouldn't be too surprising if a couple of the other churches go through, but it's quite clear that according to Luke 21:34-36, we don't HAVE to go through if we don't want to. We just need to pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape the things that are coming, and to stand before the son of man.

Then in 2 Peter 1:2-13, it's quite clear that we're given the resources and wherewithal to escape the corruption that is in this world because of lust.




Why?
Because God is a liar?
Do you know what the tribulation period is?

It's God's judgment on sin and the wrath he pours out on people to wake them up to what is coming.


Ah. So you're an amillennialist.
Again, you enjoy that.
It's a pity you don't believe God. He says otherwise. The old testament prophets are filled to the brim with details and snippets of the coming Kingdom.
Even the disciples were inquiring of the times and seasons. I find it curious that Jesus never told them that there would be no Kingdom reign.

He just said,
It's not for you to know the times and seasons that the Father has kept in his power. Acts 1.




Again, you've made a mess here.

According to Daniel, once the beginning of the tribulation is known, it's a matter of days.... 1260 to the abomination of desolation. Then another 1290 days to the coming of the Messiah. Then another 45 days, for the judgment of the world. Then the Kingdom starts. As the angel told him, blessed are those who endure to the 1335th day.

So. I find it difficult to believe that you actually understand what is taking place here.

Jesus would not be telling us that no man knows the day or hour, if it was during or after the tribulation period.

Those days and times are in fact known, once the period begins. So, Jesus telling us that the day would come as a thief, and catch the people unaware, and come as a snare to all who dwell on the earth....
These tell me otherwise.

Again, the bible passages you've provided are not the problem.

The manner in which you've used them to thread your narrative is the problem.

But, hey! If you actually want to be here, and go through the most miserable time in human history, you go right ahead.

The rest of us are more interested in making sure we're among the 5 wise virgins who have their lamps trimmed and ready for the bridegroom when he comes.
The tribulation of 3.5years is going to be controlled by the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation Chapter 11, (All Plagues) as often as they will

Rev 9:3-6 Only those without the seal of God will the plagues fall upon, men desiring to die because of the torment, and death flees

All believers (Church) are sealed by God Eph 1:13, 4:30

Its gonna be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the Hebrews werent running around scared, just as the Church present on earth isnt!

God's gonna give the two witnesses power, the Antichrist and his wicked Kingdom is gonna receive it!

Revelation 11:3-6KJV

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 9:3-6KJV

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Ephesians 4:30KJV

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Remake Of Moses/Aaron Against Pharaoh, And The Church Ain't Running Around Scared!

Don't Look Like The Antichrist Is In Control Below, Its Gonna Be A Shellacking!

Revelation 16:1-11KJV

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
No. I ignored, and avoided nothing of what you stated.
I made the point that your organization of those passages completely ignored the other 10,334 passages that details biblical prophecies.
Nice, an argument stating that 10,334 passages were ignored, are you sure it wasn't 10,335? :)
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Nice, an argument stating that 10,334 passages were ignored, are you sure it wasn't 10,335? :)
Actually, it's giving you the benefit of the doubt that you used more passages than you actually did.

1/3 of 31,102 is 10,367.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Actually, it's giving you the benefit of the doubt that you used more passages than you actually did.

1/3 of 31,102 is 10,367.
Come on Steve, 43 years at the good book?

It took me 20 years of being tangled in the spiders web of John N. Darby, and Adulterer C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference book, didnt even know who they were, sitting in the pew saying Amen!

The Lord delivered me from their false teachings, better known as (Dispensationalism) a complete fairy tale, in a pre-trib rapture, Millennial kingdom on earth, dual covenant theology, and the list goes on :)

There's Hope!

Jesus Christ Is Lord!
 

Timtofly

Member
Your response has absolutely avoided my scriptural arguments below, a long story, but non responsive to the "Three" claims before your eyes, waiting?

1. Are the (Souls) of (Future) Tribulation Saints Identified specifically in Rev 20:4 of course they are 100% Yes

2. Are the (Rest Of The Dead) Identified in Rev 20:5 as believers waiting on the (Future) (First) Resurrection 100% Yes

3. Does the Resurrection Of all take place on the Last Day 100% Yes

Revelation 20:4-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, Por in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Two resurrections are seen below,the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The last day resurrection was the Cross. All those last day verses point to the Cross. They are Jesus telling His followers, the Christ on the Cross is the Resurrection and the Life.

You deny that Jesus Christ has a physical bodily Resurrection. The First Resurrection is not a when. It is a type.

Revelation 20:4 claims those souls had a first resurrection type. That is a physical bodily resurrection.

It is the soul that is raised. Not the body!!

John is saying a soul was raised from death meaning it was given a brand new incorruptible body. If John had said I see the old physical bodies raised from the Dead, he would be a heretic. It is not the old body that is resurrected. It is the soul being given an incorruptible body. That is the first resurrection, exactly like Christ had a new incorruptible physical body, and was still 100% human, as well as still 100% God.

BTW, every soul currently in Paradise has a new incorruptible body just like Jesus Christ. If you deny that, you deny the First Resurrection in Christ.

Those in Revelation 20:4 had their soul transported through time by an angel. Because the first resurrection is also immediate at point of physical death. That is why John said the soul. These human's souls went from being beheaded prior to the end of the last 42 months, directly to the resurrection point the first day of the Millennial Reign with Christ. That is why an angel was used. There was no intermediate "resting" place. That is why the state of transport was the soul only. John was correct in his word usage. A soul, nor angel is bound by physical time and space. There is no such thing as a soul moving around without a physical body, who are alive without sin. If a soul has a body in sheol or the new state of Death, those who are not in the Lamb's book of life, we are not told. John does not even claim there is a second resurrection type. The promise is the Second Death has no power of those in a first resurrection physical body.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.)

"Come to life" as opposed to a "first resurrection". You deny a bodily resurrection, when John claims coming to life at the GWT is not even called a resurrection. The First Resurrection is way more than just coming to life. It is the act of the soul entering a permanent incorruptible body, free of Adam's sin nature and no more death period. All in sheol are literally physically and spiritually dead outside of Christ.

I do not see the church as being in this Resurrection point. The church has already been raised in Christ and in Paradise now. This Revelation 20:4 Resurrection type is only for those alive on earth after the Second Coming. The church is already glorified and full sons of God restored to the full image of God. The sheep of the Trumpets, the wheat of the Thunders, and those beheaded for rejection of the mark are the only ones who fit being transported by angels through time during the final harvest.

This will restore Israel and many nations and bypass Satan's 42 months literally. This staying alive in Adam's sinful corruptible bodies of flesh and enduring to the end has nothing to do with life during the final harvest and Satan's 42 months.

This endurance is faithfulness of believers during the last 1990 years of great tribulation. Those in Nations blessed by God over the last 200 years seem to forget the persecutions of the majority of the church the last 1990 years.
 

Timtofly

Member
Come on Steve, 43 years at the good book?

It took me 20 years of being tangled in the spiders web of John N. Darby, and Adulterer C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference book, didnt even know who they were, sitting in the pew saying Amen!

The Lord delivered me from their false teachings, better known as (Dispensationalism) a complete fairy tale, in a pre-trib rapture, Millennial kingdom on earth, dual covenant theology, and the list goes on :)

There's Hope!

Jesus Christ Is Lord!
So leaving misled brethren is one thing. To take up antichrist teaching is not the answer.

Antichrist thought denies God His millennium reign. Satan is bound for 1000 years. Saying Satan is not bound is the spirit of Antichrist. Saying God does not have a Day of the Lord is the spirit of Antichrist.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
The last day resurrection was the Cross. All those last day verses point to the Cross. They are Jesus telling His followers, the Christ on the Cross is the Resurrection and the Life.

You deny that Jesus Christ has a physical bodily Resurrection. The First Resurrection is not a when. It is a type.

Revelation 20:4 claims those souls had a first resurrection type. That is a physical bodily resurrection.

It is the soul that is raised. Not the body!!

John is saying a soul was raised from death meaning it was given a brand new incorruptible body. If John had said I see the old physical bodies raised from the Dead, he would be a heretic. It is not the old body that is resurrected. It is the soul being given an incorruptible body. That is the first resurrection, exactly like Christ had a new incorruptible physical body, and was still 100% human, as well as still 100% God.

BTW, every soul currently in Paradise has a new incorruptible body just like Jesus Christ. If you deny that, you deny the First Resurrection in Christ.

Those in Revelation 20:4 had their soul transported through time by an angel. Because the first resurrection is also immediate at point of physical death. That is why John said the soul. These human's souls went from being beheaded prior to the end of the last 42 months, directly to the resurrection point the first day of the Millennial Reign with Christ. That is why an angel was used. There was no intermediate "resting" place. That is why the state of transport was the soul only. John was correct in his word usage. A soul, nor angel is bound by physical time and space. There is no such thing as a soul moving around without a physical body, who are alive without sin. If a soul has a body in sheol or the new state of Death, those who are not in the Lamb's book of life, we are not told. John does not even claim there is a second resurrection type. The promise is the Second Death has no power of those in a first resurrection physical body.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.)

"Come to life" as opposed to a "first resurrection". You deny a bodily resurrection, when John claims coming to life at the GWT is not even called a resurrection. The First Resurrection is way more than just coming to life. It is the act of the soul entering a permanent incorruptible body, free of Adam's sin nature and no more death period. All in sheol are literally physically and spiritually dead outside of Christ.

I do not see the church as being in this Resurrection point. The church has already been raised in Christ and in Paradise now. This Revelation 20:4 Resurrection type is only for those alive on earth after the Second Coming. The church is already glorified and full sons of God restored to the full image of God. The sheep of the Trumpets, the wheat of the Thunders, and those beheaded for rejection of the mark are the only ones who fit being transported by angels through time during the final harvest.

This will restore Israel and many nations and bypass Satan's 42 months literally. This staying alive in Adam's sinful corruptible bodies of flesh and enduring to the end has nothing to do with life during the final harvest and Satan's 42 months.

This endurance is faithfulness of believers during the last 1990 years of great tribulation. Those in Nations blessed by God over the last 200 years seem to forget the persecutions of the majority of the church the last 1990 years.
I disagree with your eschatology,

The first resurrection is future and not a type, this will take place on the last day at the second coming
 

Truth7t7

Active member
So leaving misled brethren is one thing. To take up antichrist teaching is not the answer.

Antichrist thought denies God His millennium reign. Satan is bound for 1000 years. Saying Satan is not bound is the spirit of Antichrist. Saying God does not have a Day of the Lord is the spirit of Antichrist.
The will be no future 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
 
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