No Millennial Kingdom Is Found In Rev 20:1-6 As Many Claim?

Arkycharlie

Active member
It took me 20 years of being tangled in the spiders web of John N. Darby, and Adulterer C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference book, didnt even know who they were, sitting in the pew saying Amen!

The Lord delivered me from their false teachings, better known as (Dispensationalism) a complete fairy tale, in a pre-trib rapture, Millennial kingdom on earth, dual covenant theology, and the list goes on :)

There's Hope!

Jesus Christ Is Lord!
So, just out of curiosity, who's teaching do you promote here now? I'm assuming that you don't claim that you arrived at your opinions purely from your own personal study, which is a claim that I do make for myself. I know of no one else who believes as I do in these matters.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
So, just out of curiosity, who's teaching do you promote here now? I'm assuming that you don't claim that you arrived at your opinions purely from your own personal study, which is a claim that I do make for myself. I know of no one else who believes as I do in these matters.
Charlie I have been saved for 44 years, I have attended, Baptist, Calvary Chapel, Assembly Of God, Four Square, Non-Denominational in this time

I love to study, and my first challenge by Gods Spirit was 2 Thess 2:3 below, as the Baptist preacher spoke of a pre-trib rapture, Gods words below taught otherwise, the man of sin/antichrist, must be revealed, and the preacher was stating contrary to scripture, this was my great awakening!

It has been through personal study and Spirit driven, KJV Bible, Strongs Concordance, Bible Gateway, and isolated topic research

How did the pre-trib teaching start?

Who was John N. Darby & C.I. Scofield?

The very same applied to all the topics and doctrines being taught in the Churches today, Millennialism, Dual Covenant Theology, Daniel's 70 weeks, On and On

I'm a God fearing believer, who enjoys Gods words, fishing, hunting, and the outdoors, cant wait for summer time!

Thanks for the time Charlie, Jesus Is Lord

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 
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Arkycharlie

Active member
Charlie I have been saved for 44 years, I have attended, Baptist, Calvary Chapel, Assembly Of God, Four Square, Non-Denominational in this time

I love to study, and my first challenge by Gods Spirit was 2 Thess 2:3 below, as the Baptist preacher spoke of a pre-trib rapture, Gods words below taught otherwise, the man of sin/antichrist, must be revealed, and the preacher was stating contrary to scripture, this was my great awakening!

It has been through personal study and Spirit driven, KJV Bible, Strongs Concordance, Bible Gateway, and isolated topic research

How did the pre-trib teaching start?

Who was John N. Darby & C.I. Scofield?

The very same applied to all the topics and doctrines being taught in the Churches today, Millennialism, Dual Covenant Theology, Daniel's 70 weeks, On and On

I'm a God fearing believer, who enjoys Gods words, fishing, hunting, and the outdoors, cant wait for summer time!

Thanks for the time Charlie, Jesus Is Lord

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Thanks, that's very helpful to understand where you're coming from. The Lord called me out of atheism in 1978 and almost immediately I became almost obsessed with the study of Bible prophecy.

So tell me, do you believe that the entire 70th week of Daniel has yet to be fulfilled? I too very much disagree with the traditional dispensational interpretation of 2 Thess. 2:3 and the way the words are twisted to make the text say something that fits their eschatology rather than the actual meaning. However, I am unalterably pretrib but I do expect the AC to be revealed just before the rapture. In my understanding, our Lord's 3 1/2 year earthly ministry fulfilled the first half of Daniel's 70th week leaving only the last half to be fulfilled. But this is a deep subject and difficult to discuss in a forum such as this.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Thanks, that's very helpful to understand where you're coming from. The Lord called me out of atheism in 1978 and almost immediately I became almost obsessed with the study of Bible prophecy.

So tell me, do you believe that the entire 70th week of Daniel has yet to be fulfilled? I too very much disagree with the traditional dispensational interpretation of 2 Thess. 2:3 and the way the words are twisted to make the text say something that fits their eschatology rather than the actual meaning. However, I am unalterably pretrib but I do expect the AC to be revealed just before the rapture. In my understanding, our Lord's 3 1/2 year earthly ministry fulfilled the first half of Daniel's 70th week leaving only the last half to be fulfilled. But this is a deep subject and difficult to discuss in a forum such as this.
Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
mail

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV

It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV

2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see (70 Literal Future Weeks) or 490 days.

When the (Future) call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off as Armies surrounding Jerusalem, who stop the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation now starts.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Timtofly

Member
I disagree with your eschatology,

The first resurrection is future and not a type, this will take place on the last day at the second coming
The Cross happened in 30AD. That is not future. If that is still future to you, you have the wrong interpretation of the Gospels.
 

Timtofly

Member
The will be no future 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
That is a private interpretation, and leaves out important aspects of Peter's warning in 2 Peter 3. The heavens are dissolved.
 

Timtofly

Member
2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who is going to reveal Satan? That is the man of sin, the son of perdition. He has deceived the world with western knowledge both science and theology. We live in a finite reality of 8000 years. That is Satan being exposed and refuted. Who is going to accept they have been deceived into accepting human understanding of reality instead of the truth of God's Word?
 

Truth7t7

Active member
The Cross happened in 30AD. That is not future. If that is still future to you, you have the wrong interpretation of the Gospels.
Im talking about The Future (First Resurrection) of the believer to eternal life (Seen Below), the (Second Resurrection) seen is to eternal damnation

Revelation 20;5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John 5:28-28KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

Timtofly

Member
Im talking about The Future (First Resurrection) of the believer to eternal life (Seen Below), the (Second Resurrection) seen is to eternal damnation

Revelation 20;5-6KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John 5:28-28KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
According to Paul in both Thessalonians and Corinthians tells us the church does not wait for the Last day Resurrection. Paul says to be absent (the soul) from this body is to be present immediately with the Lord (in Paradise) in a permanent body. Those alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air at the Second Coming.

The Last Day Resurrection was from Abraham's bosom at the Cross to Paradise. All the rest of the dead, not in Abraham's bosom, not in Christ, not in the church, not sheep of the Second Coming final harvest, not beheaded, all have to wait until after the 1000 year reign of Christ, for the GWT. The GWT is not the last day resurrection for the redeemed period.

Revelation 20:4 is specifically for those beheaded who do not take the mark of the beast. I would also add to that those sheep and wheat during the Trumpets and Thunders that will come out of the time of unprecedented tribulation because God and the Lamb are bringing the judgment to earth. They are allowing Satan to unleash his army of angels as well. These sheep and wheat do not accept Christ. God chooses them to die and repopulate the earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. Both the Nation of Israel and many other nations. But it will not be sin infested, nor humanity with a sin nature. It will not be by faith, but the direct iron rule of Jesus Christ, along with the ever present God on the throne.

So the first resurrection type started at the Cross. All are blessed in that resurrection type. It is a type because of the two births and two deaths. The first birth, first death and first resurrection is physical dealing with the physical shell the soul resides in. All pertaining to the First.

The Second resurrection is the glorification when one's spirit is given as a robe of white. We see this in the 5th Seal in Revelation 6. Eternal separation from God, and demons deal with the second type of birth, death and there is no second resurrection mentioned anywhere. Their torment went up forever, meaning no end at all. The souls who are glorified are always mentioned in connection with heaven or Paradise. They are never on earth, until the NHNE, and they come down in the New Jerusalem. The First Resurrection can only be a type, but allowed to many souls over the last 1990 years since the Cross. Then the final one for those chosen by God or those beheaded to avoid the mark who only recieve incorruptible bodies to populate the earth during the millennium.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
According to Paul in both Thessalonians and Corinthians tells us the church does not wait for the Last day Resurrection. Paul says to be absent (the soul) from this body is to be present immediately with the Lord (in Paradise) in a permanent body. Those alive and remain will meet the Lord in the air at the Second Coming.

The Last Day Resurrection was from Abraham's bosom at the Cross to Paradise. All the rest of the dead, not in Abraham's bosom, not in Christ, not in the church, not sheep of the Second Coming final harvest, not beheaded, all have to wait until after the 1000 year reign of Christ, for the GWT. The GWT is not the last day resurrection for the redeemed period.

Revelation 20:4 is specifically for those beheaded who do not take the mark of the beast. I would also add to that those sheep and wheat during the Trumpets and Thunders that will come out of the time of unprecedented tribulation because God and the Lamb are bringing the judgment to earth. They are allowing Satan to unleash his army of angels as well. These sheep and wheat do not accept Christ. God chooses them to die and repopulate the earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. Both the Nation of Israel and many other nations. But it will not be sin infested, nor humanity with a sin nature. It will not be by faith, but the direct iron rule of Jesus Christ, along with the ever present God on the throne.

So the first resurrection type started at the Cross. All are blessed in that resurrection type. It is a type because of the two births and two deaths. The first birth, first death and first resurrection is physical dealing with the physical shell the soul resides in. All pertaining to the First.

The Second resurrection is the glorification when one's spirit is given as a robe of white. We see this in the 5th Seal in Revelation 6. Eternal separation from God, and demons deal with the second type of birth, death and there is no second resurrection mentioned anywhere. Their torment went up forever, meaning no end at all. The souls who are glorified are always mentioned in connection with heaven or Paradise. They are never on earth, until the NHNE, and they come down in the New Jerusalem. The First Resurrection can only be a type, but allowed to many souls over the last 1990 years since the Cross. Then the final one for those chosen by God or those beheaded to avoid the mark who only recieve incorruptible bodies to populate the earth during the millennium.
You have provided no scripture to support your claims, your response is silent.
 

Timtofly

Member
You have provided no scripture to support your claims, your response is silent.
You should know Paul's verses by now. I do not need to use them as a sledge hammer to drive the point home. The verses I responded to do not need to be quoted twice. You see them one way. I see them another way. That should not be that hard to figure out. Just commenting on the same Scripture you have used.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
You should know Paul's verses by now. I do not need to use them as a sledge hammer to drive the point home. The verses I responded to do not need to be quoted twice. You see them one way. I see them another way. That should not be that hard to figure out. Just commenting on the same Scripture you have used.
Once again, You have provided no scripture to support your claims, your response is silent.

The forum discussion and debate isn't based upon mind reading.
 

Timtofly

Member
Once again, You have provided no scripture to support your claims, your response is silent.

The forum discussion and debate isn't based upon mind reading.
And your insistence that you need proof for each point already based on basic understanding is not proof you have a point. I am to remain silent as my opinion does not matter any way. You failed to compare Scripture before making your point, not me.
 
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