No one can come to me...

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TomFL

Guest
Where does the Bible confirm the above is true and not your assumptions or what you have been taught your whole life as a Christian?
Its quite simple read the old testament

you will see Prophets, kings and leaders filled with the spirit

When it comes to the general populous National Israel for example you only read about the indwelling of the spirit in eschatological texts to be fulfilled ijn the New covenant

Example Ezek 36; Joel 2; Jeremiah 31 etc

Not to mention the act John 7:38, 39 has the indwelling awaiting Christ's glorification

I have noted this a number of times previously and you have not responded to it

Why not ?
 
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guest1

Guest
Its quite simple read the old testament

you will see Prophets, kings and leaders filled with the spirit

When it comes to the general populous National Israel for example you only read about the indwelling of the spirit in eschatological texts to be fulfilled ijn the New covenant

Example Ezek 36; Joel 2; Jeremiah 31 etc

Not to mention the act John 7:38, 39 has the indwelling awaiting Christ's glorification

I have noted this a number of times previously and you have not responded to it

Why not ?
You can’t go by Jesus earthly ministry as your guide since He and the Apostles were unique in history. Like I said earlier Pentecost was a one time event that was prophesied during the coming of Messiah.
 
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TomFL

Guest
You can’t go by Jesus earthly ministry as your guide since He and the Apostles were unique in history. Like I said earlier Pentecost was a one time event that was prophesied during the coming of Messiah.
So you think the indwelling of the spirit only happened during pentecost ?

The eschatoloical fulfillment of Ezek 36, Joel 2 and Jer 31 only during Jesus earthly ministry ?

P.S. pentecost was of course after Christ's ministry

but

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

not to mention the fact that like at pentecost

Acts 15:8 (KJV)
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
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guest1

Guest
So you think the indwelling of the spirit only happened during pentecost ?

The eschatoloical fulfillment of Ezek 36, Joel 2 and Jer 31 only during Jesus earthly ministry ?

P.S. pentecost was of course after Christ's ministry

but

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

not to mention the fact that like at pentecost

Acts 15:8 (KJV)
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
No it was a one time unmistakable event that was prophesied
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You don't need that title brother. Peter said that if any man suffer as a Christian. Let him not be ashamed. Christian honors our Lord. I cares His name. His Character. It is good enough for anyone and everyone. All those others just get in the way. I understand you want others to understand you. I get that, but that takes time. Effort. Titles don't often relate that in a meaningful way.
Most people who don't want you to know, are a little left of Orthodox and want to keep it a secret...
 
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TomFL

Guest
Abraham was born again and filled with the Spirit of God in the new birth. The entire Book of Romans establishes that fact. If you only accept this one fact in Abraham, what you say is wrong.
Then produce a verse saying Abraham was indwelt by the spirit in the old covenant era
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
So we've been talking about diagramming Bible verses in a couple of these threads, and it occurred to me to diagram John 6:44, to see if doing so could add any new insight into what the verse says. So I diagrammed the English text and the Greek text (I'm a member of a NT Greek diagramming group on Facebook).

Basically, the structure looks like this:

1) "No one can come to me"
2) ........"unless"
3)..................."The Father who sent me draw him"
4)........................"and"
5)..................."I will raise him up at the last day."

We have a main clause ("no one can come to me") and two subordinate clauses ("The father who sent me draw him", and "I will raise him up..."). Both subordinate clauses are subordinate to the main clause.

Neither subordinate clause is subordinate to the other.
In fact, they are connected by a coordinating conjunction ("and"), which puts them on the same level.

Now it could be understood that in the case of "no one can come to me" being negated, both subordinate clauses would then be true, since they are coordinated with each other. This seems to be intuitive (and I tend to lean this way), but it's not strictly true in a logical sense. It could be read that each of the two subordinate clauses needs to be true independently, for the man to come.

What I find especially interesting is that in the two subordinate clauses, one action is done by the Father ("draws him") and one action is done by the Son ("will raise him up"). I cannot fathom that the Father and the Son would be at odds with one another, and the Father draw someone whom the Son decides not to raise up. The Father and the Son are one in purpose, they are working for the same goal.

Further, if one wishes to add an extra criteria ("the him must accept Christ", or "the him must agree to be drawn"), it is found nowhere in the passage.
The reason they misconstrue this passage is that they're stuck on the word, 'Drawing.' They don't understand or refuse to accept the context of the passage, as you have laid out.
 
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TomFL

Guest
No it was a one time unmistakable event that was prophesied
Sorry the indwelling of the Spirit is not a one time event

and you just ignored two scriptures disproving that


Acts 15:8 (KJV)
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 
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guest1

Guest
Sorry the indwelling of the Spirit is not a one time event

and you just ignored two scriptures disproving that


Acts 15:8 (KJV)
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Pentecost was

next
 
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TomFL

Guest
Or maybe.....How did Abraham cry "Abba Father"?

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Where do you see any statement Abraham was indwelt by the spirit during the old covenant era

Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
 
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guest1

Guest
Where do you see any statement Abraham was indwelt by the spirit during the old covenant era

Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
How many times does Paul mention Abraham in Romans 4-11 ?
 
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TomFL

Guest
Pentecost was

next
The day not what happened on that day

and in that regard you are still ignoring the scriptures posted

Sorry the indwelling of the Spirit is not a one time event

and you just ignored two scriptures disproving that


Acts 15:8 (KJV)
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now do you want to deal with the issue ?
 
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