No one who does good , not even one

Manfred

Well-known member
Context

Matthew 11:15-25 (KJV)
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

You simply do not know what you are talking about

The passage has nothing to do with anything post cross

or unconditionality rather it deals with Jews who were hardened

and from the context we see they had everything to do with their judgment

once again you attempt to interpret scripture apart from context
You think the context changes because you post the full chapter?

You also again think the scripture is useless for the Church and only Israel can gain from reading it.

What a pathetic attempt to make God out to be a Liar.
You still think that the wise and prudent can understand the gospel and that it rests in their powers of discernment in the natural.

You truly are a false teacher who's excuse is that scripture does not apply to the church, it applies to Israel only.
You should be ashamed.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You think the context changes because you post the full chapter?

Just the opposite I think the surrounded text forms the context

You lift versdes from their ciontext and then read your meaning into them
You also again think the scripture is useless for the Church and only Israel can gain from reading it.

Once again you are being deceptive

I have never stated scripture is useless to the church.

Nor have I ever stated only Israel can gain from it

Why do you constantly distort ?

It is not honest


What a pathetic attempt to make God out to be a Liar.
You still think that the wise and prudent can understand the gospel and that it rests in their powers of discernment in the natural.
Again another distortion. I have never stated anything about the the wise being able to believe

In the context of 1Cor 2 it is the wise of this world who do not believe and find the gospel foolish

and those who do not depend on worldly wisdom who believe

How is it you constantly misrepresent what is held



You truly are a false teacher who's excuse is that scripture does not apply to the church, it applies to Israel only.
You should be ashamed.

Again fabrication

Do you believe indulging in fabrication is a proper way to behave ?

rather it is you who should be ashamed for constantly distorting what was stated
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Just the opposite I think the surrounded text forms the context
So Jesus saying that all who are weary and heavy laden should come to Him, only applies to Israel....

You expose yourself more and more as a miss-user of God's word to protect your false teachings...
 
T

TomFL

Guest
So Jesus saying that all who are weary and heavy laden should come to Him, only applies to Israel....

You expose yourself more and more as a miss-user of God's word to protect your false teachings...

Once again you omit context
Manfred said:
You think the context changes because you post the full chapter?

Just the opposite I think the surrounded text forms the context

You lift verses from their context and then read your meaning into them

The context concerning the wise who the gospel is hidden from


Matthew 11:16-25 (KJV)
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

regarding the invitation to come I have not stated Jesus statement to come applies only to Israel

but the word did go out to Israel first

while we know from other scriptures the invitation is to all

example

Revelation 22:17 (NIV2011)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
In Romans 3 it says this.

No one does good not even one

In Ecclesiastes 7 it says no one is just on earth and does good

In Psalm 14 and 53 it says there is no one who does good, not even one

How can any person say total depravity is not true after reading these passages and see their own sinfulness before our Holy and Righteous and Just God ?

I have a difficult time understanding how any one who says they are a Christian and believes the Bible can disagree with total depravity. They must not see themselves as sinners and think they are somehow good.
Romans 3, and Eccleastes 7, and the Psalms are THE WORD OF GOD.

ON the other hand, "Total depravity" is the title of a theological construct, part of the "Reformed Systematic", which draws certain conclusions, and places limits which may or may not have any basis in fact.

The Biblical position is that God can obviously interact with Humans any way He pleases, and what appears to be COMMON is by way of CONVICTION OF SIN, and of Judgement. Under CONVICTION, persons can surrender, repent, and call upon God IN FAITH gifted by God for the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to be applied to their lives, and be indwelled with the Holy Spirit, making them Christians.

Simple as that.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Romans 3, and Eccleastes 7, and the Psalms are THE WORD OF GOD.

ON the other hand, "Total depravity" is the title of a theological construct, part of the "Reformed Systematic", which draws certain conclusions, and places limits which may or may not have any basis in fact.

The Biblical position is that God can obviously interact with Humans any way He pleases, and what appears to be COMMON is by way of CONVICTION OF SIN, and of Judgement. Under CONVICTION, persons can surrender, repent, and call upon God IN FAITH gifted by God for the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to be applied to their lives, and be indwelled with the Holy Spirit, making them Christians.

Simple as that.
Your post reminds me that what calvinists teach about Total Depravity is that God is incapable of speaking to His creation. partly because He made them Totally depraved and therefore unable to "hear and understand" Him
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Your post reminds me that what calvinists teach about Total Depravity is that God is incapable of speaking to His creation. partly because He made them Totally depraved and therefore unable to "hear and understand" Him

Wow...
Way to twist what we believe.

Total depravity is about MAN's "incapability",
not about GOD'S alleged "incapability".
We believe God is omnipotent, and therefore not "incapable" of ANYTHING.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Your post reminds me that what calvinists teach about Total Depravity is that God is incapable of speaking to His creation. partly because He made them Totally depraved and therefore unable to "hear and understand" Him
Yes and it is unbiblical

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Wow...
Way to twist what we believe.

Total depravity is about MAN's "incapability",
not about GOD'S alleged "incapability".
We believe God is omnipotent, and therefore not "incapable" of ANYTHING.
Double talk again. If a man is incapable of "hearing" God, then God is incapable of being heard
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Yes and it is unbiblical

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.
of course. But they cannot admit that, as it it a part of their house of cards,
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Double talk again. If a man is incapable of "hearing" God, then God is incapable of being heard

Nope, THAT is "double-talk" by YOU.

Man's inability does NOT mean inability by God.

Man is totally unable, but God can (and frequently DOES overcome that with "irresistible grace". If God doesn't do that with someone, it's not because He "cannot", but because He CHOOSES not to.

You may not like what we believe, but it does NOT give you the right to misrepresent us.


And it's sad that you spend so much effort misrepresenting what we believe, but you refuse to answer very STRAIGHTFORWARD questions about what YOU believe.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Nope, THAT is "double-talk" by YOU.

Man's inability does NOT mean inability by God.

Man is totally unable, but God can (and frequently DOES overcome that with "irresistible grace". If God doesn't do that with someone, it's not because He "cannot", but because He CHOOSES not to.

You may not like what we believe, but it does NOT give you the right to misrepresent us.


And it's sad that you spend so much effort misrepresenting what we believe, but you refuse to answer very STRAIGHTFORWARD questions about what YOU believe.
No Theo, you danced around the argument.
You did not deal with God's inability to be heard.
Instead you dealt with the Calvinists idea that God can make a person able.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Nope, THAT is "double-talk" by YOU.

Man's inability does NOT mean inability by God.

Man is totally unable, but God can (and frequently DOES overcome that with "irresistible grace". If God doesn't do that with someone, it's not because He "cannot", but because He CHOOSES not to.

You may not like what we believe, but it does NOT give you the right to misrepresent us.


And it's sad that you spend so much effort misrepresenting what we believe, but you refuse to answer very STRAIGHTFORWARD questions about what YOU believe.
So unless God irresistibly overwhelms a man He cannot be understood

Do you have a verse which states that ?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Wow...
Way to twist what we believe.

Total depravity is about MAN's "incapability",
not about GOD'S alleged "incapability".
We believe God is omnipotent, and therefore not "incapable" of ANYTHING.
We would hate Calvinism too; if what he says it is were True...
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Nope, THAT is "double-talk" by YOU.

Man's inability does NOT mean inability by God.

Man is totally unable,.........................

Why then did God harden men so they could not believe

John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

Why does Luke lead us to believe had men not hardened themselves they could have believed

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Why did Jesus speak to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why does the god of this age seek to blind men who are already blind

2 Corinthians 4:4 (CSB)
4 In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Your doctrine is not rational
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
Once again you omit context


Just the opposite I think the surrounded text forms the context

You lift verses from their context and then read your meaning into them

The context concerning the wise who the gospel is hidden from


Matthew 11:16-25 (KJV)
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

regarding the invitation to come I have not stated Jesus statement to come applies only to Israel

but the word did go out to Israel first

while we know from other scriptures the invitation is to all

example

Revelation 22:17 (NIV2011)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
Non answer

You did state that the passage applies only to Israel, now your claim is only the part that says Jesus Chooses applies to Israel, the rest not.
You expose your false teachings even more.
 
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