No, our goal is not reducing abortions.

J regia

Well-known member
Good luck, but the word "baby" does denote one that is born, and the bible never uses the word "murder" in respect of a foetus.
And that's because the bible even commands pregnancy terminations for adulteresses (Leviticus 20:10 Numbers 5:20-28).


Well-known member
Firstly, I will say that I can understand where this view of abortion is coming from. I profoundly disagree with you, but that doesn't mean that I think that you are crazy or not entitled to hold the views you do. I can also see that it is consistent with your faith position insofar as I understand it. That said, I would say that these ideas are so extreme, that in a way they are welcome. The more those who are ambivalent to abortion see views like this, the more they will be inclined to uphold or support abortion rights, which in my view is a good thing.

I should add that I live in a country where abortion is no longer an issue. It was legalised here in 1966 and is no longer remotely controversial. We have none of the baggage that seems to be attached to the issue in the US. The established churches broadly support the status quo and it has been upheld by regular free votes in Parliament. The status of the foetus is settled in our law. It is not legally a person, cannot be a victim of crime, so the notion of abortion being murder is simply incoherent nonsense. This is the case in most developed countries, including the US. In order for abortion to be classed as murder, you must first convince legislators that the developing unborn child is a person. It isn't enough to say "Of course it's a person", since the status quo is that it is not regarded as a person in law. It is the law you seek to change. You won't do so by appealing to emotion.

Why do you think that the developing unborn child is a person? What are the features that make an entity a person? At what point in the pregnancy do you think that the developing unborn child becomes a person?
Well firstly in the country you live in its not finished at as in this year a bill was presented to allow abortion up until birth.
Abortion was legalised in the UK for exceptional circumstances and not for pro-choice.

My further issue this week, is Climate change protesters have blocked roads, which is illegal and the police have been slow to clear them. Many woke lefties have been affirming the right to preaceful protest as they continue to exclude peaceful abortion protests outside clinics which dont obstruct.

Friends over the water take what Temujin says about the UK with caution. The UK is heading the way of stalinist type marxism