No, our goal is not reducing auto accidents

Temujin

Well-known member
The 'unborn' what?
This is the best you got? I know it is very hard to defend the murder of babies in the womb...but you guys sure try. It's would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
I was talking to someone else, who objects to the term "foetus" for some peculiar reason or other. To answer your question, the unborn, pre-natal, embryo/zygote/foetus. We all know what we are talking about. It is typical of failed arguments such as yours to obsess about labels. If I say the unborn child, you go into a froth-faced meltdown as if altering the label alters the nature of the organism. The only way to avoid this labelism is to stick to scientific nomenclature. "Baby" isn't accurate, is emotionally loaded and is a result of gut-think rather than actually thinking. It is very easy to defend the murder of babies in the womb, just as easy as defending the murder of corpses in the coffin. It doesn't happen. There are no babies in the womb. Babies are born.
 

Mik

Well-known member
Abortion, where legal, is not murder, by definition.
SMH...That's all you got? Ah, the definition makes it not murder! You guys are unbelievable! Thanks for continuing to prove what I wrote:

'These people try so hard to not say what is actually going on, the murder of life, a baby.'
 

Mik

Well-known member
I was talking to someone else, who objects to the term "foetus" for some peculiar reason or other. To answer your question, the unborn, pre-natal, embryo/zygote/foetus. We all know what we are talking about. It is typical of failed arguments such as yours to obsess about labels. If I say the unborn child, you go into a froth-faced meltdown as if altering the label alters the nature of the organism. The only way to avoid this labelism is to stick to scientific nomenclature. "Baby" isn't accurate, is emotionally loaded and is a result of gut-think rather than actually thinking. It is very easy to defend the murder of babies in the womb, just as easy as defending the murder of corpses in the coffin. It doesn't happen. There are no babies in the womb. Babies are born.
LOL....SMH....Now the 'labels' (labelism...lol...who came up with that label..SMH) do not make abortion murder! Your 'defense' of murder is so sad. Just continuing to prove what I said.

'These people try so hard to not say what is actually going on, the murder of life, a baby.'
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
SMH...That's all you got? Ah, the definition makes it not murder! You guys are unbelievable! Thanks for continuing to prove what I wrote:

'These people try so hard to not say what is actually going on, the murder of life, a baby.'
Yes, facts are all I have. Yes, the definition makes it not murder. That's how the English language works.
 

Mik

Well-known member
Sorry if you find the English language sad...it's really neutral. Words have meanings, same as any language.
They absolutely do. That's why pro-baby murderers (and supporters) choose them carefully..
It would be funny if not so sad. And my words still remain true:
'These people try so hard to not say what is actually going on, the murder of life, a baby.'
 

Temujin

Well-known member
LOL....SMH....Now the 'labels' (labelism...lol...who came up with that label..SMH) do not make abortion murder! Your 'defense' of murder is so sad. Just continuing to prove what I said.

'These people try so hard to not say what is actually going on, the murder of life, a baby.'
No murder, no baby. We don't have to try hard. You are the one contesting reality.
 

BMS

Well-known member
No murder, no baby. We don't have to try hard. You are the one contesting reality.
The reality is that the human life has names for the different stages of development. The pro-choice position is that the mother can choose to terminate this human life because it doesnt meet certain criteria that the Pro-choice have decided is crucial.
That isnt a very sound position because it is a subjective one. Since it is a subjective one it is not evidence based proof.
The danger is that other similar extremist ideologies might decide on different criteria, like the fascist and marxist ones did last century
 

Temujin

Well-known member
The reality is that the human life has names for the different stages of development.
It does indeed. "Baby" refers to a human from birth to around 12 months, not to the unborn.
The pro-choice position is that the mother can choose to terminate this human life because it doesnt meet certain criteria that the Pro-choice have decided is crucial.
No. The pro-choice position is that the mother can choose to terminate the pregnancy for almost any reason whatsoever, at least in the early stages.
That isnt a very sound position because it is a subjective one. Since it is a subjective one it is not evidence based proof.
Rubbish. You cannot get much more objective than an Act of Parliament, tried and tested over 6 decades.
The danger is that other similar extremist ideologies might decide on different criteria, like the fascist and marxist ones did last century
Completely irrelevant slippery slope argument much?
 

BMS

Well-known member
It does indeed. "Baby" refers to a human from birth to around 12 months, not to the unborn. No. The pro-choice position is that the mother can choose to terminate the pregnancy for almost any reason whatsoever, at least in the early stages. Rubbish. You cannot get much more objective than an Act of Parliament, tried and tested over 6 decades. Completely irrelevant slippery slope argument much?
But whatever the pro-choice position thinks about it being terminating the pregnancy, the human life is being terminated. Simply calling the termination pregnancy rather then human life doesnt mean it isnt the termination of human life.
So are you saying it isnt human life?
That is the subjective bit, not the Act of Parliament. The Act of Parliament affirms the law around the subjective position. Its subjective because the laws in different countries are different.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
But whatever the pro-choice position thinks about it being terminating the pregnancy, the human life is being terminated. Simply calling the termination pregnancy rather then human life doesnt mean it isnt the termination of human life.
So are you saying it isnt human life?
Not at all. Of course the human life of the unborn child is ended. The point is that the life of the unborn child in early pregnancy is worth very little unless the mother chooses to value it. At some point the unborn child is sufficiently developed to acquire rights, moral and legal. Conception is not that point.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Not at all. Of course the human life of the unborn child is ended. The point is that the life of the unborn child in early pregnancy is worth very little unless the mother chooses to value it. At some point the unborn child is sufficiently developed to acquire rights, moral and legal. Conception is not that point.
Ok so I said the human life is being terminated. You have agreed.
Now regardless of the value placed on her own offspring by the mother, it is subjective and indeed most mothers value the offspring.
The problem is this, subjective value on a human life for whatevwe reason can vary between people and some other nasty people will subjectively choose other values to terminate human life. As pro-choice are you ok with that?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Ok so I said the human life is being terminated. You have agreed.
Now regardless of the value placed on her own offspring by the mother, it is subjective and indeed most mothers value the offspring.
The problem is this, subjective value on a human life for whatevwe reason can vary between people and some other nasty people will subjectively choose other values to terminate human life. As pro-choice are you ok with that?
Which is why we have objective legal criteria. You make my case for me. Your moral feelings are worthless in determining the choices of someone else. That's what the law is for.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Which is why we have objective legal criteria. You make my case for me. Your moral feelings are worthless in determining the choices of someone else. That's what the law is for.
But the criteria are not objective, they are subjective because the laws vary according to the subjective criteria. So the criteria maybe abortion allowed up to 12 weeks or allowed up until 24 weeks.
And its no more my moral feelings than yours or the other people's morals.
 
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