No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
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What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing
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Are you equating 'will not' with 'cannot'? There is a difference; otherwise, you have God irresistibly drawing one who has chosen not to come.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
They are the same, they will not come because they cannot come, because they dead !
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They "cannot come, because they" don't believe as Christ believes, that's how and why God chooses ONLY believers. Since, Christ's faith and belief originated in and with the Father.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
'Spiritually dead' in is not the same as 'dead in sins'; 'will not' is not the same as 'cannot'.
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Where did you ever read that spiritually dead is not the same as dead in sin ? Man is spiritually dead in sin and cannot come to Christ without the Father causing it Jn 6:44 and will not come and seek the True God Rom 3:11 all because man is dead spiritually, you can deny it all you want, you are only denying scripture !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
No man can come to Christ by his own freewill ability because by nature hes dead in trespasses and sins and without spiritual life and ability to do or act. So consequently he cant come and believe on Christ of himself, or of his own freewill.
 
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squirrelyguy

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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You are assuming quite a bit about the reason for Christ's statement here. Elsewhere He tells Peter in response to His confession that "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," that "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." Christ explicitly gives the reason that the Father had to reveal this to Peter; because "flesh and blood" had not revealed it to him.

In other words, since the truth about who Jesus was and what He came to do was not being openly proclaimed yet, nobody would have reasoned that way unless it was supernaturally revealed to them. It's called the Messianic secret. Jesus healed people and told them to tell no one what had happened to them...because He couldn't have made His intentions known without jeopardizing the plans altogether. The rulers of this age would never have crucified Him if they knew who He was (1 Cor. 2:8).

However, this was only true pre-resurrection. After Christ's death and resurrection, the fullness of the gospel has been openly proclaimed, and now it is no longer true that a person cannot say "flesh and blood has not revealed this to me." Every time a person hears the gospel through the voice of another person, they are being told by flesh and blood! Thus, the barrier that existed in John 6:44 no longer exists.

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” - John 12:32
 
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squirrelyguy

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
No man can come to Christ by his own freewill ability because by nature hes dead in trespasses and sins and without spiritual life and ability to do or act. So consequently he cant come and believe on Christ of himself, or of his own freewill.
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The physical death comparison with spiritual death sure gets a lot of mileage from Calvinists. The problem is that not only are physically dead men incapable of believing, but they are incapable of sinning either! Thus, the absolute inability of physical death cannot be accurately compared to what the Bible calls spiritual death.

Spiritually dead men are quite capable of sinning, despite the fact that physically dead men are not. Thus, there is no reason to think that spiritually dead men cannot have faith, even though physically dead men cannot. The only comparison that we can draw between death of the physical type and death of the spiritual type is separation. Just as a physically dead person is separated from the world of the living, so a spiritually dead person is separated from God. Any other analogy that one tries to draw, especially when it comes to inability, is highly problematic.
 
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newheart78

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power, that is the regenerating / drawing Power !
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brightfame52 said:
What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
Click to expand...
Absolutely ! Because by nature, or the natural man 1 Cor. 2:14 lacks the ability or state of mind to please God Rom. 8:8, no man can come to Christ or believe on Him John 5:40; John 6:44 except by the regenerating Power of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
squirrelyguy said:
You are assuming quite a bit about the reason for Christ's statement here. Elsewhere He tells Peter in response to His confession that "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," that "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." Christ explicitly gives the reason that the Father had to reveal this to Peter; because "flesh and blood" had not revealed it to him.

In other words, since the truth about who Jesus was and what He came to do was not being openly proclaimed yet, nobody would have reasoned that way unless it was supernaturally revealed to them. It's called the Messianic secret. Jesus healed people and told them to tell no one what had happened to them...because He couldn't have made His intentions known without jeopardizing the plans altogether. The rulers of this age would never have crucified Him if they knew who He was (1 Cor. 2:8).

However, this was only true pre-resurrection. After Christ's death and resurrection, the fullness of the gospel has been openly proclaimed, and now it is no longer true that a person cannot say "flesh and blood has not revealed this to me." Every time a person hears the gospel through the voice of another person, they are being told by flesh and blood! Thus, the barrier that existed in John 6:44 no longer exists.

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” - John 12:32
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Its no assuming, man by nature is dead to God and Christ, the true ones. The only way man can come to Christ in Faith is if God causes them to come Jn 12:32;Jn 6:44, other than that, its a rap, man has no anility to do it !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
newheart78 said:
Absolutely ! Because by nature, or the natural man 1 Cor. 2:14 lacks the ability or state of mind to please God Rom. 8:8, no man can come to Christ or believe on Him John 5:40; John 6:44 except by the regenerating Power of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth.
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Exactly My Sister, you nailed it !
 
H

Hark

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
Click to expand...
More precisely, the credit goes to the Father.

Some may attribute power as if done by a visitation of a phenomenon later on in life on someone whom was already a saved believer.

So in these latter days where saved believers are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils as if they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" and apart from salvation, we need to be clear as to the conclusion of the Father getting that credit.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
There are believers and unbelievers in all congregations.

In the 14th chapter Paul writes to the Corinthians : So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all,

In Revelation 22:17 we read that the Spirit and the bride say Come. And let him who hears say Come. Let the one who is thirsty come and let the one who desires take the water of life freely.
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It has nothing to do with congregations, one is either alive to God by New Birth, or Dead in sin. Those dead in sin dont thirst, it takes life my friend to be thirsty for the things of Gpd !
 
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