Um, it doesn't say only 20 and up were atoneable, it says they were expected to contribute an offering. Obviously you have no clue as to what 20 years old and up meant in the Hebrew culture. It isn't a proof text against the fact all are sinners inherently.
I answered your posts, you bore false witness. Marking and avoiding you is biblical, not "running." You're on your own, son.
By these errors it’s obvious you rushed through the chapter, and this response, but that’s fine. Thank you for the the attempt, I won’t bother to ask what you think 20 years old means in Hebrew. Or what God said the ransom was for. You want to make sure you won’t be seen as avoiding anything. Congratulations.
Nonsense. The OT is something every Christian should understand. Nevertheless, trying to use one idea against another idea is not recommended. It's why I tell Christians not to use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality. It leaves them wide open to answer other questions re mixing fabrics, stoning your children etc.
I wouldn't recommend not using Leviticus for such an instance, this is exactly where Paul and others derived this truth. In addition to that it stands against the imperative of 2 Timothy 3:16ff.Nonsense. The OT is something every Christian should understand. Nevertheless, trying to use one idea against another idea is not recommended. It's why I tell Christians not to use Leviticus to condemn homosexuality. It leaves them wide open to answer other questions re mixing fabrics, stoning your children etc.
From Got Questions on Pelagianism
What is Pelagianism? | GotQuestions.org
What is Pelagianism? What is the Pelagian view of original sin? Is Pelagianism heresy / false doctrine?www.gotquestions.org
Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good.
Pelagianism is named after Pelagius, a monk who lived in the late 300s and early 400s AD. Pelagius began teaching the doctrine associated with his name in an effort to promote holy living among Christians. When people sinned, Pelagius grew weary of hearing the excuse of “I can’t help it. It’s in my nature to do wrong.” To counter that excuse, Pelagius stressed the freedom of the human will, essentially teaching that all sin is the result of a conscious choice of evil over good; everyone has the ability to freely choose to do good all the time. And, since there is no such thing as original sin or an inherited sin nature, then we cannot blame Adam. God created us good, so no one ever has an excuse for sinning. If you’re not living a holy life, it’s because you’re not trying hard enough.
Pelagianism contradicts the Bible in many places. Romans 5 solidly refutes the notion that Adam’s sin had no effect on us:
• “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (verse 12).
• “Many died by the trespass of the one man” (verse 15).
• “The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation” (verse 16).
• “By the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man” (verse 17).
• “One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people” (verse 18).
• “Through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners” (verse 19).
Further, the Bible tells us that we are sinful from the moment of conception (Psalm 51:5). All human beings die as a result of sin (Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23).
While Pelagianism says that human beings are not born with a natural inclination toward sin, the Bible says the opposite (Romans 3:10–18). Anyone who has raised children can attest to the fact that infants do not have to be taught how to sin; on the contrary, they must be carefully and consistently taught how to avoid sin and behave wisely, prudently, and righteously.
Pelagianism’s underlying fault is its reliance on human freedom and willpower instead of the grace of God. In saying that we all possess an inherent power to choose holiness for ourselves, Pelagius made the grace of God of no effect. The Bible says that, before the grace of God saves us, we are “dead” in our sins (Ephesians 2:1); Pelagianism says it’s not so bad as all that. We can choose to obey God’s commands, and, if we only knew our true nature, we could please God and save ourselves.
Pelagius and his false doctrine were fought by Augustine and condemned by the Council of Carthage in AD 418, the same year that Pelagius was excommunicated. The doctrine did not disappear, however, and had to be condemned again by the Council of Ephesus (431) and later church councils. Pelagianism survives to this day and shows up in any teaching that says following Christ is primarily a choice we make apart from any supernatural intervention of God’s grace. In any age and in any form, Pelagianism is unscriptural and should be rejected.
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Even if you didn't object to Calvinism, you don't even hold an Arminian view of original sin.
No sale.
Many don’t unfortunately. There are those here who think Joshua is speaking to people who rejected God at Josh 24:15 for example.
its also not what’s happening.
Except the Bible says to do the opposite. Part of the rise in issues like homosexuality come directly from lukewarm takes like yours. The answer isn’t to dilute the truth to appease the world. The answer should have been no more mixed fabrics for you like the Bible says.
Thanks for this, but it still doesn’t address many points I have brought up. Romans 3 says ALL have sinned, and Romans 5 says that MANY have been made sinners. Why did Paul make the distinction? Don’t you believe Romans 5:19 where it says Jesus made MANY righteous? Isn’t that a core tenet of your belief, the atonement is limited, Jesus didn’t die for everyone, etc? An honest reading of the text accepts that MANY (not all) are made righteous, and MANY (not all) are made sinners.From Got Questions on Pelagianism
What is Pelagianism? | GotQuestions.org
What is Pelagianism? What is the Pelagian view of original sin? Is Pelagianism heresy / false doctrine?www.gotquestions.org
Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good.
Pelagianism is named after Pelagius, a monk who lived in the late 300s and early 400s AD. Pelagius began teaching the doctrine associated with his name in an effort to promote holy living among Christians. When people sinned, Pelagius grew weary of hearing the excuse of “I can’t help it. It’s in my nature to do wrong.” To counter that excuse, Pelagius stressed the freedom of the human will, essentially teaching that all sin is the result of a conscious choice of evil over good; everyone has the ability to freely choose to do good all the time. And, since there is no such thing as original sin or an inherited sin nature, then we cannot blame Adam. God created us good, so no one ever has an excuse for sinning. If you’re not living a holy life, it’s because you’re not trying hard enough.
Pelagianism contradicts the Bible in many places. Romans 5 solidly refutes the notion that Adam’s sin had no effect on us:
• “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (verse 12).
• “Many died by the trespass of the one man” (verse 15).
• “The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation” (verse 16).
• “By the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man” (verse 17).
• “One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people” (verse 18).
• “Through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners” (verse 19).
Further, the Bible tells us that we are sinful from the moment of conception (Psalm 51:5). All human beings die as a result of sin (Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23).
While Pelagianism says that human beings are not born with a natural inclination toward sin, the Bible says the opposite (Romans 3:10–18). Anyone who has raised children can attest to the fact that infants do not have to be taught how to sin; on the contrary, they must be carefully and consistently taught how to avoid sin and behave wisely, prudently, and righteously.
Pelagianism’s underlying fault is its reliance on human freedom and willpower instead of the grace of God. In saying that we all possess an inherent power to choose holiness for ourselves, Pelagius made the grace of God of no effect. The Bible says that, before the grace of God saves us, we are “dead” in our sins (Ephesians 2:1); Pelagianism says it’s not so bad as all that. We can choose to obey God’s commands, and, if we only knew our true nature, we could please God and save ourselves.
Pelagius and his false doctrine were fought by Augustine and condemned by the Council of Carthage in AD 418, the same year that Pelagius was excommunicated. The doctrine did not disappear, however, and had to be condemned again by the Council of Ephesus (431) and later church councils. Pelagianism survives to this day and shows up in any teaching that says following Christ is primarily a choice we make apart from any supernatural intervention of God’s grace. In any age and in any form, Pelagianism is unscriptural and should be rejected.
***********************************
Original sin is not taught in the Bible.
No offer. The truth just is.
We aren’t talking about wiping out anyone. We are talking about whether or not God commanded children to atone for sins.
I disagree with you on the above.
Homosexuality is a grave reprobate sin. But it must not be used in Leviticus only. The NT texts should be used as well. No one here is giving this sin a pass.
Sorry but I disagree with your handling of scripture in witnessing. The most I could say is that when witnessing younshould concern yourself with what the Spirit wants you to say and less with what you think the person might say back.
Your opinion doesn’t change what the Bible says. Adam made MANY (not all) men sinners and Jesus made MANY (not all) men righteous (Romans 5:19).
Here is proof positive he’s a full-blown Pelagianist and would make Pelagius proud…
I wish you were that stern with homosexuals instead of compromising your witness to them because of what you think they might say.
Oh so you witness to them by calling them out on homosexuality. How is that working out for you converting them ?
You left out the scriptural citation that says as much because none exist. Your continual denial of sola scritpura is troubling.
You should try the actual reason the bible gives instead of making up your own.
I witness to everyone with no fear of what they may say to me. There is no argument to be made for anything else.
Thats great, but no one is going to tell me to witness by fearing what the response may be. The battle is already lost with that mentality.