No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
There are believers and unbelievers in all congregations.

In the 14th chapter Paul writes to the Corinthians : So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all,

In Revelation 22:17 we read that the Spirit and the bride say Come. And let him who hears say Come. Let the one who is thirsty come and let the one who desires take the water of life freely.
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It has nothing to do with congregations, one is either alive to God by New Birth, or Dead in sin. Those dead in sin dont thirst, it takes life my friend to be thirsty for the things of Gpd !
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Hark said:
More precisely, the credit goes to the Father.

Some may attribute power as if done by a visitation of a phenomenon later on in life on someone whom was already a saved believer.

So in these latter days where saved believers are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils as if they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" and apart from salvation, we need to be clear as to the conclusion of the Father getting that credit.
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I dont understand you, what credit should the Father get ?
 
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Hark

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
I dont understand you, what credit should the Father get ?
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Read the verses you had picked out in the OP.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Since you had asked the question, then obviously the other verses in your OP was indeed misapplying that credit to the power, thus missing out the "only" way any man can come to the Son and that is by the Father.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Hark said:
Read the verses you had picked out in the OP.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Since you had asked the question, then obviously the other verses in your OP was indeed misapplying that credit to the power, thus missing out the "only" way any man can come to the Son and that is by the Father.
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Okay, you seem to understand !
 
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Hark

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Okay, you seem to understand !
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I'm not sure you do.

Do you still credit the power or do you credit only the Father as the One that draws men unto the Son? Power can be misapplied to mean anything which is why it is better to credit only the Father.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Hark said:
I'm not sure you do.

Do you still credit the power or do you credit only the Father as the One that draws men unto the Son? Power can be misapplied to mean anything which is why it is better to credit only the Father.
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You should be more observant in what you read. The Father's Power is being highlighted in Jn 6:44, but I believe it can be the Sons Power and the Spirits Power as well. The main point is that apart from God causing it, man can't believe in Christ.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
You should be more observant in what you read. The Father's Power is being highlighted in Jn 6:44, but I believe it can be the Sons Power and the Spirits Power as well. The main point is that apart from God causing it, man can't believe in Christ.
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The 2 references you had cited credit the Person of the Father as drawing men unto the Son so you cannot emphasize the power as one shared by the Son & the Spirit that is drawing men unto the Son. No exception since the only exception for Who draws men unto the Son is the Father as in no one can come to the Son except the Father draws him.

So I agree with you in that our believing in God is a work of God also but more specified as the exception is the Father as He is the only One that draws men unto the Son.

Indeed, the Father is the One that reveals the Son to even babes so they can believe in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 11:25-27 testifies of this work being of the Father in regards to hiding the truth from some while revealing the truth unto others.
 
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