No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Theo1689]

It convinced me enough to change my Mind. I'll do the study again...

Fair enough...

 

[ReverendRV]

So you think that Jesus, while He is holding an actual living breathing child (Matt 18:2), is being figurative when He said these little ones which believe in me? The comparison to adult believers is made in verses 3 and 4, but verse 6 He is holding an actual child and said they believe in Him. He calls children believers. You dont believe Him?

So how is it that these little ones can Believe in Jesus, but not believe what Jesus believed about their Sinfulness?

 

[cadwell]

So how is it that these little ones can Believe in Jesus, but not believe what Jesus believed about their Sinfulness?

What exactly does Jesus believe about the sinfulness of a child?

 

[preacher4truth]

So how is it that these little ones can Believe in Jesus, but not believe what Jesus believed about their Sinfulness?

There would be no need for them to believe in him as their Savior since they're sinless and need no salvation.

Note how John uses "little children" when referring to toddlers...oops...I mean believers in 1 John. Wonder where he came up with that theopneustos term?

 

[cadwell]

I get that from the context.

I see @cadwell accuses me of not believing Jesus because he was holding a child as an attack on my position which the context literally supports.

The context has Jesus literally holding a child (matt 18:2) while saying these (referring to said child) believe in me (verse 6). When He wanted the adults to behave figuratively as children, He said "AS this little child" (verse 3) and "AS little children" (verse 2). Your interpretation has Jesus telling His disciples to behave..........like unbelievers???

I have heard in the past an argument that verse 6 can mean both adults and children, and I have no problem with that.

I suppose this must mean the fig tree he cursed was literally Israel. Thus we see the fallacious hermeneutic he employs.

Great example. You see how a fig tree the doesnt BEAR FRUIT can be compared to a nation that doesnt? Well it works the same way in Matt 18.

 

[cadwell]

There would be no need for them to believe in him as their Savior since they're sinless and need no salvation.

According to you maybe. According to Jesus, children believe in Him (matt 18:6) and the kingdom of Heaven is for them (matt 19:14). I'll give you one guess who I believe.

Note how John uses "little children" when referring to toddlers...oops...I mean believers in 1 John. Wonder where he came up with that theopneustos term?

Johns used "little children" as a way to describe adults, agreed 100%. As little children is what Jesus told His disciples to be in Matt 18:2-3, after all. But here is this:

1 John2
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Verse 12, the little children (adults) have their sins forgiven.
Verse 13, the fathers (adults still, but older men) have know Him that is from the beginning.
Verse 13, young men (adults still, but younger age group than the fathers) have overcome the wicked one
Verse 13, little children (NOW he is talking about actual children) they have known the Father.
Verse 14, back to fathers (but this time speaking more to elders depending on who you ask) have also know Him that is from the beginning
Verse 14, back to the young men (young adults), strong, Word of God in them, overcame the wicked one.

Do you notice how "little children" in verse 13 (which is different from "little children" in verse 12) know the Father? Why do you think that is, that there is no mention of forgiving sins or overcoming the wicked one when John directly addressed children/infants? But only when he addressed adults?

 

[e v e]

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

each soul of His will consciously choose Him.

we have very little free choice
but that 1 choice we do have.

 

[e v e]

the soul comes from God.
nothing of His is depraved

but the soul is imprisoned in this world
and this Fleshbody as paul calls it.

a soul can choose Him.

 

[e v e]

It has nothing to do with congregations, one is either alive to God by New Birth, or Dead in sin. Those dead in sin dont thirst, it takes life my friend to be thirsty for the things of Gpd !

if you are in a body here,
that is the sin realm.

the body is sin. Flesh.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh no, I don't reject Original Sin and I don't hold to an Age of Accountability. I've come to the conclusion that Infants don't Lie while in the womb. As far as Jesus saying these little ones love him, I'm looking for it. It was probably in a certain Translation, and I can't find it right now...

Tell me what you believe Original Sin teaches. I don't think your view of it is the Reformed view, if I am understanding you correctly. TIA.

 

[SovereignGrace]

each soul of His will consciously choose Him.

we have very little free choice
but that 1 choice we do have.

So the lost are dead, but they are not that dead that they are incapable of choosing?

 

[e v e]

So the lost are dead, but they are not that dead that they are incapable of choosing?

no it’s not that sort of logic.

it’s that a soul can hear Him and respond.

 

[e v e]

even though a soul be little

if a soul cannot respond, she cannot repent.

an action is required of a soul - to accept Him…

that is a choice.

 

[SovereignGrace]

no it’s not that sort of logic.

it’s that a soul can hear Him and respond.

Which means they are alive, right?

 

[SovereignGrace]

even though a soul be little

if a soul cannot respond, she cannot repent.

an action is required of a soul - to accept Him…

that is a choice.

And even repentance is a gift of God per Rom. 2:4, 2 Cor. 7:10, 2 Tim. 2:25, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18.

 

[e v e]

Which means they are alive, right?

it means they are a soul.

what is dead is this body - see haggai 2.

this is not the body adam received in eden, and the eden body was not dead.

 

[SovereignGrace]

it means they are a soul.

what is dead is this body - see haggai 2.

this is not the body adam received in eden, and what was not dead.

And the spirit in the lost person is dead...see Nekros, the Greek word used for 'dead'.

 

[e v e]

And even repentance is a gift of God per Rom. 2:4, 2 Cor. 7:10, 2 Tim. 2:25, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18.

if a soul doesn’t choose then sin is meaningless

and adam did not sin.

a man repents and thats a choice.
not freedom capital letters but a choice.

only satan wants zombies for sons.

 

[e v e]

And the spirit in the lost person is dead...see Nekros, the Greek word used for 'dead'.

a soul made by Him is not the same as a soulless human or a satan spirit type.

 

[e v e]

if sin was not an act of disobedience then
the entire point of being saved from this sin realm

is

missing.

and there is no original sin.


God is restoring eden.