No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

e v e

Super Member
And the spirit in the lost person is dead...see Nekros, the Greek word used for 'dead'.
there is only the soul and this fleshbody (what paul calls it). the mind is the carnal mind and self.

the soul is npsh. see the OT hebrew.

it means living being - 1 undivided living being.

because of adams willful disobedience
we are living in dead bodies.

haggai 2.
 

e v e

Super Member
the depraved entity is the foreign Self acquired at the fall. it’s the carnal mind. it’s not the soul, the poor soul being completely at the mercy of that ugly monster.

that self was acquired when adam disobeyed.

the soul can listen to Him and respond.

the Self (which is a satanic entity and not created by God) is depraved and dead and does not care.
 

e v e

Super Member
its alright. many confuse the self and the soul and believe something coming from God (the soul) can be depraved.

only the satanic is depraved.

a soul can choose either to be of Him or to be of that (depraved) Self.
 
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e v e

Super Member
this is why in paul

the choice to not be of this world :

to follow Christ instead
and leave this world and die to the flesh
and all the needs and wants of this sin realm.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
if a soul doesn’t choose then sin is meaningless

They are already born dead in sin and transgressions, being conceived in Adam.

and adam did not sin.

What did he do then, if he did not sin? Notice than when Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge the bible makes no mention of a change in her status before God. It was after Adam ate that THEIR(plural, both of them) eyes were opened.

a man repents and thats a choice.

Yet, you easily and readily dismiss those FIVE vss I gave you that proves repentance is a gift of God.

not freedom capital letters but a choice.

No one is free, not even the saved. We are either slaves to sin and Satan or righteousness and Christ. There are no neutrally free ppl walking around on earth.

only satan wants zombies for sons.

The lost are not zombies but dead. Again, look up the meaning of nekros, the Greek word used for 'dead'.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
there is only the soul and this fleshbody (what paul calls it). the mind is the carnal mind and self.

the soul is npsh. see the OT hebrew.

it means living being - 1 undivided living being.

because of adams willful disobedience
we are living in dead bodies.

haggai 2.
Man is body, soul and spirit. He is tripartite.
 

e v e

Super Member
Man is body, soul and spirit. He is tripartite.
the spirit ruling a soul is either His spirit or a satanic one.

only a soul can be saved.

this fleshbody is a horror to Him.

at the change soon we are restored to the body given adam… and eve - the imperishable eden body and our resurrection body.

yes.. eve is innocent… it’s adam who sinned. he left her alone unprotected.

being saved is at the Change.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
the spirit ruling a soul is either His spirit or a satanic one.

only a soul can be saved.

this fleshbody is a horror to Him.

at the change soon we are restored to the body given adam… and eve - the imperishable eden body and our resurrection body.

yes.. eve is innocent… it’s adam who sinned. he left her alone unprotected.

being saved is at the Change.

We all were conceived dead in Adam, as David testified to in Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3. This is also testified to by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:22 and Rom. 5:12ff. The lost are dead in Adam and Satan is their ruler. They are slaves to him and sin. Only when God breaks that bondage Satan has on them are they free to come to him. Satan will not let them go of his own volition, and they are unable, in and of themselves, to break free from his clutches. That is what total depravity teaches. In the fall, all of man's faculties have been affected by sin and there is not one iota of righteousness to be found in them. It does not mean that men are as evil as they can be(though we have seen some that seem to be that evil, such as Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein, Pol Pot, Vlad Dracula{Vlad the Impaler}, just to name a few) but that they are utterly unable to recover themselves from their fallen in Adam condition. That is why regeneration is an absolute necessary to save them.
 

e v e

Super Member
We all were conceived dead in Adam, as David testified to in Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3. This is also testified to by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:22 and Rom. 5:12ff. The lost are dead in Adam and Satan is their ruler. They are slaves to him and sin. Only when God breaks that bondage Satan has on them are they free to come to him. Satan will not let them go of his own volition, and they are unable, in and of themselves, to break free from his clutches. That is what total depravity teaches. In the fall, all of man's faculties have been affected by sin and there is not one iota of righteousness to be found in them. It does not mean that men are as evil as they can be(though we have seen some that seem to be that evil, such as Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein, Pol Pot, Vlad Dracula{Vlad the Impaler}, just to name a few) but that they are utterly unable to recover themselves from their fallen in Adam condition. That is why regeneration is an absolute necessary to save them.
but this very earth and body is satan s clutches.

are not God’s.

so in that sense we are surrounded by depravity and are helpless until the Change when we are saved from here, and from this depravity the fleshbody

what Christ made possible by paying our price - that we can go Home. Home is in eden paradise.

a soul has a choice. and can repent.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
A person dead in trespasses and sin cannot come to Christ because he does not have the will to come, nor can he hear the Word of God John 5:40; 8:43

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Tell me what you believe Original Sin teaches. I don't think your view of it is the Reformed view, if I am understanding you correctly. TIA.
Original Sin is a generational Curse which results in our inheriting the Unconditional Consequences and Guilt of Adam's Original Sin in the Garden of Eden for breaking the Edenic Covenant of Works, as if we we're Real Participants with Adam and Eve; leaving all who are in Adam Fallen, Totally Depraved Sinners...
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Original Sin is a generational Curse which results in our inheriting the Unconditional Consequences and Guilt of Adam's Original Sin in the Garden of Eden for breaking the Edenic Covenant of Works, as if we we're Real Participants with Adam and Eve; leaving all who are in Adam Fallen, Totally Depraved Sinners...
I (mostly) agree with this (and maybe it’s I who am wrong) but I don’t know that it means we are real participants with Adam, but that when we are conceived we are imputed that guilt and God views us as if we did it ourselves. Maybe this is a distinction without a difference?

So, babies never love God, seeing that are conceived at variance with Him.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
if a soul sincerely wants Him

He will help you Die to that Self.
And if a soul sincerely wants Him, then He has ALREADY wrought grace in that person. The unregenerate person wants nothing to do with Him[Rom. 8:5-9, 1 Cor. 1:18, & 1 Cor. 2:14].
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I (mostly) agree with this (and maybe it’s I who am wrong) but I don’t know that it means we are real participants with Adam, but that when we are conceived we are imputed that guilt and God views us as if we did it ourselves. Maybe this is a distinction without a difference?

So, babies never love God, seeing that are conceived at variance with Him.
What I find intriguing is that the entire creation has come under a curse as per Romans 8 &c, and people accept this truth, but then say man get's to choose to obey God just like Adam, and if not then they become sinners like him. It is as if the universal consequences of the fall do not apply to them until they exercise almighty free will. Man-centered nonsense right there.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
What I find intriguing is that the entire creation has come under a curse as per Romans 8 &c, and people accept this truth, but then say man get's to choose to obey God just like Adam, and if not then they become sinners like him. It is as if the universal consequences of the fall do not apply to them until they exercise almighty free will. Man-centered nonsense right there.
There’s that little island of righteousness that was left unaffected by the fall, their free will.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
When man is dead in his sins, his nature is against God... His nature controls his will... He will not and cannot come to God without divine help... That simple... Why is that so hard?
God has given gracious divine help: Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, the gospel of salvation to whosoever believes.
 
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