No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Chalcedon

Well-known member
You dont get to tell me what my argument is. I am more than capable of speaking for myself. Anything you say about my argument that I dont say myself is a misrepresentation. I will kindly ask again, please refrain from misrepresenting me. The only thing I am taking note of is your continued inability to directly address my argument in favor of this useless ad hominem.
No one here has misrepresented you that is a false claim. Prove it by quoting the poster and showing you didn't say or imply that in your post.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Original Sin is a generational Curse which results in our inheriting the Unconditional Consequences and Guilt of Adam's Original Sin in the Garden of Eden for breaking the Edenic Covenant of Works, as if we we're Real Participants with Adam and Eve; leaving all who are in Adam Fallen, Totally Depraved Sinners...
This I would agree. I would just add that man because of this participation with Adam the consequences is man is born spiritually dead to God, just as much as God told Adam[man] that in the day he eats, he should surely die ! Gen 2:17


But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The word die mut means

  1. to die, kill, have one executed
    1. (Qal)
      1. to die
      2. to die (as penalty), be put to death
      3. to die, perish (of a nation)
      4. to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct)
    2. (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch
    3. (Hiphil) to kill, put to death
    4. (Hophal)
      1. to be killed, be put to death
        1. to die prematurely

So from that time forward, for any man or person to have any meaningful spiritual relationship with God, they must be born again, or made alive ! And thats totally out of mans ability to do, so much so as it was out of Lazarus control to make himself alive as he lay in his physical death and stinketh !

This is why no man can come to Christ, who is God, by their so called own freewill, that would mean he wasn't dead !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
All Gods Elect and the non elect are by nature spiritually dead, dead in sin Eph 2:1,5; Col 2:13. This means that all men naturally are living without spiritual life and alienated from God. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

As such we are naturally in spiritual death Rom 8:6

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.80

All by nature are carnal minded, that cant be helped, even if we are very pious and religious and moral.

In this state we have no affections or motion towards God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why Jesus says of man naturally Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
God has given gracious divine help: Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, the gospel of salvation to whosoever believes.
Sorry but unless the help God gives a person is life from the dead, man remains dead and alienated from God. Natures revelation , or moral dictates to mans heart dont give life, doesnt solve the problem of man being dead !
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
... Natures revelation , or moral dictates to mans heart dont give life, doesnt solve the problem of man being dead !
Of course they do not give life; it does, however, point the way to obtain life by faith.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Of course they do not give life; it does, however, point the way to obtain life by faith.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
So thats the problem, man is dead to God, so nothing helps him but to be given life, and that's out of mans control.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Are you saying that a mans will cannot choose God. Isn’t man responsible to choose serving God ?

Joshua 24:14-15
Now fear the Lordand serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
A dead person is dead to God, until he is given life, hes in a hopeless situation.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Were they dead in Joshua 24 ?

The people Joshua spoke to sure appeared to be alive when I read the chapter .
Yes if they weren't regenerated they were dead to God. Besides that, Joshua was speaking to the people as a whole, the redeemed nation of israel, they were as a nation already the people of God. However if it came to a person personally, they must like any other sinner must needs to be made spiritually alive to serve the Living God, which comes through the blood of Christ Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Ok so no one was saved in the Old Testament since no one was born again until Pentecost. That is what you believe ?
Plenty of folk were saved in the OT, where you get that non sense from my friend. BTW this thread is about no man can come to Christ /believe on Him by their so called own freewill Jn 6:44
 
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