No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

brightfame52

Well-known member
Of course they do not give life; it does, however, point the way to obtain life by faith.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
So thats the problem, man is dead to God, so nothing helps him but to be given life, and that's out of mans control.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
So thats the problem, man is dead to God, so nothing helps him but to be given life, and that's out of mans control.
Are you saying that a mans will cannot choose God. Isn’t man responsible to choose serving God ?

Joshua 24:14-15
Now fear the Lordand serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Are you saying that a mans will cannot choose God. Isn’t man responsible to choose serving God ?

Joshua 24:14-15
Now fear the Lordand serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

Just to be clear, Classical Arminians also teach everyone is dead in sins and unable to come to God on their steam, God's grace always precedes man's efforts.

Arminians believe grace can be resisted (as the Bible actually describes), and this is where the "choose ye this day" comes in.

"Provisionists" (fans of Dr. Leighton Flowers) and similar soteriologies that mitigate the effects of original sin do not believe in the need for preceding grace.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Are you saying that a mans will cannot choose God. Isn’t man responsible to choose serving God ?

Joshua 24:14-15
Now fear the Lordand serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
A dead person is dead to God, until he is given life, hes in a hopeless situation.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Were they dead in Joshua 24 ?

The people Joshua spoke to sure appeared to be alive when I read the chapter .
Yes if they weren't regenerated they were dead to God. Besides that, Joshua was speaking to the people as a whole, the redeemed nation of israel, they were as a nation already the people of God. However if it came to a person personally, they must like any other sinner must needs to be made spiritually alive to serve the Living God, which comes through the blood of Christ Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Yes if they weren't regenerated they were dead to God. Besides that, Joshua was speaking to the people as a whole, the redeemed nation of israel, they were as a nation already the people of God. However if it came to a person personally, they must like any other sinner must needs to be made spiritually alive to serve the Living God, which comes through the blood of Christ Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
I thought regeneration / born again began in the New Testament at Pentecost?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Thats what you get for thinking !
Are you saying people were born again before Pentecost?

Why are you being demeaning and sarcastic?

Luke 6
If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High,because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Ok so no one was saved in the Old Testament since no one was born again until Pentecost. That is what you believe ?
Plenty of folk were saved in the OT, where you get that non sense from my friend. BTW this thread is about no man can come to Christ /believe on Him by their so called own freewill Jn 6:44
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Nobody said faith is regeneration, so please dont misrepresent, its not christlike friend
I asked if people on the OT were born again and your response was of course they had faith . So that means faith is regeneration. Maybe you could communicate more clearly next time.
 
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