No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

brightfame52

Well-known member
The 2 references you had cited credit the Person of the Father as drawing men unto the Son so you cannot emphasize the power as one shared by the Son & the Spirit that is drawing men unto the Son. No exception since the only exception for Who draws men unto the Son is the Father as in no one can come to the Son except the Father draws him.

So I agree with you in that our believing in God is a work of God also but more specified as the exception is the Father as He is the only One that draws men unto the Son.

Indeed, the Father is the One that reveals the Son to even babes so they can believe in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 11:25-27 testifies of this work being of the Father in regards to hiding the truth from some while revealing the truth unto others.
Well the Father provided the Son and He said He draws men as well. Jn 12
 

civic

Well-known member
Well the Father provided the Son and He said He draws men as well. Jn 12
Once again bait n switch you were discussing John 6 so stick with the context and take his correction as Hark is correct from John 6. You always run from the text when challenged you are so predictable.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Once again bait n switch you were discussing John 6 so stick with the context and take his correction as Hark is correct from John 6. You always run from the text when challenged you are so predictable.
I can make a case for the Spirit leading men to Christ. God is Triune Jn 16 speaks of the Spirit work or drawing to Christ. Do you believe that friend?
 

civic

Well-known member
I can make a case for the Spirit leading men to Christ. God is Triune Jn 16 speaks of the Spirit work or drawing to Christ. Do you believe that friend?
Ya sure but you ran away from proving your point from John 6 just like you did with Luke 7 which speaks volumes about your false claims from the actual text in question .
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit draws to Christ, do you believe that ?

You're not very good at answering questions, are you?
(Again, if you're stumped, Edit per mod

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all died on the cross. Do you believe THAT?!
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
I’m a trinitarian what do you think ?
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit draws to Christ, do you believe that ? Tell me what you think friend
You're not very good at answering questions, are you?
(Again, if you're stumped, you can ask your girlfriend...)

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all died on the cross. Do you believe THAT?!
As Good as you I suppose, so tell me. Did the Father, Son, and Spirit have a part in drawing the elect to Christ ? Yes or No
 

civic

Well-known member
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit draws to Christ, do you believe that ? Tell me what you think friend

As Good as you I suppose, so tell me. Did the Father, Son, and Spirit have a part in drawing the elect to Christ ? Yes or No
I answered you question, next !

BTW- you never answer our questions that is the definition of being a hypocrite.

You run from our questions and expect us to answer your every whim .
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit draws to Christ, do you believe that ? Tell me what you think friend

I simply believe Scripture:

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

You should try it sometime.

the Father, Son, and Spirit have a part in drawing the elect to Christ ? Yes or No

UnBiblical.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Well the Father provided the Son and He said He draws men as well. Jn 12
John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Verse 33 is why He had said verse 32.

It is not the same message in regards to the Father because not everyone that saw Him crucified, believed in Him, certainly not the Pharisees that put Him there. ( Granted, Jesus gave up His life; the Jews did not really take it away from Him )

John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

So the scripture that singled out the Father by that exception for how men are drawn unto the Son means only the Father did it. Yes, His crucifixion on the cross was the focus as to Who the Father was drawing them to, but still only the Father does this by the use of that word "except" in His words. Indeed, this scripture testify that the Father gives those to be saved to the Son per the father's will.

John 6: 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
How does a person come if it’s not freely? Do they come against there own will ?
 
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