No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

newheart78

Well-known member
The only ones who will come to Christ/believe in Him for all Salvation will be His Sheep Jn 10:26. And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 175which speaks to Election. The Father by drawing them to Christ, actually, by His Spirit of Grace, causes them to come or believe in Christ, hence all credit, praise, honor must go to God for a person believing in Jesus Christ for Salvation. See Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Absolutely, and perfectly stated Brother !
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
What relationship do YOU think "eating something I like" has to Suddenly and catastrophically abandoning your entire life direction, and striking out in a totally DIFFERENT direction with a complete new set of values, and the directive to "Crucify the flesh", Die to self, and enter into a lordship environment as the PURCHASED POSSESSION of your new Lord and Savior??
God never calls sinners to "suddenly and catastrophically [abandon their] entire life direction and [strike] out in a totally DIFFERENT direction with a complete new set of values, [or]... to 'Crucify the flesh'." He calls sinners to believe (submissively) in Christ, giving up their lives, and yes, to "enter into a lordship environment as the PURCHASED POSSESSION of [their] new Lord and Savior." After they come to Christ, the Holy Spirit accomplishes catastrophic changes. We have but to surrender to Him. The ice cream illustrated how the term that you object to, "irresistible," can mean an irresistible attraction and does not have to mean an irresistible force. Such an illustration is not difficult for any to understand; therefore, you have made yourself out to be someone who does not squarely face reasonable arguments.
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
That was certainly true in my case. Whether it's absolutely "inevitable" or not would be a little farther than I'd go conceptually, BUT - obviously in my case, although it took over a decade, it got done. God DOES KNOW how to get you in a corner with a "Deal too persuasive to refuse" painful as the transition may be. I encountered God back when I was 7, but wasn't Born Again until I was 20....
Congratulations! You hold to Unconditional Election & Irresistible Grace! Welcome aboard!
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
you have made yourself out to be someone who does not squarely face reasonable arguments.

Can't argue with that, Bob.

The "house" wins again.

Hope you enjoyed your time you were sovereigly decreed and determined to resist God's irresistible grace.
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
The only ones who will come to Christ/believe in Him for all Salvation will be His Sheep Jn 10:26. And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 175which speaks to Election. The Father by drawing them to Christ, actually, by His Spirit of Grace, causes them to come or believe in Christ, hence all credit, praise, honor must go to God for a person believing in Jesus Christ for Salvation. See Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
When Jesus said to Pilate, "You could have no power over Me unless it were given you from above," did that mean that Jesus was not submitting to Pilate's power of His own free will? Did He go to the cross of His own free will even though we know that it was God who give Him into their hands according to God's own wise counsel?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
When Jesus said to Pilate, "You could have no power over Me unless it were given you from above," did that mean that Jesus was not submitting to Pilate's power of His own free will? Did He go to the cross of His own free will even though we know that it was God who give Him into their hands according to God's own wise counsel?
I wish you luck trying to get the person to give you a direct answer to your questions. So far everyone else has had no such luck.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
When Jesus said to Pilate, "You could have no power over Me unless it were given you from above," did that mean that Jesus was not submitting to Pilate's power of His own free will? Did He go to the cross of His own free will even though we know that it was God who give Him into their hands according to God's own wise counsel?

Are you under the mistaken impression that Jesus was born in sin?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
God never calls sinners to "suddenly and catastrophically [abandon their] entire life direction and [strike] out in a totally DIFFERENT direction with a complete new set of values, [or]... to 'Crucify the flesh'." He calls sinners to believe (submissively) in Christ, giving up their lives, and yes, to "enter into a lordship environment as the PURCHASED POSSESSION of [their] new Lord and Savior." After they come to Christ, the Holy Spirit accomplishes catastrophic changes. We have but to surrender to Him. The ice cream illustrated how the term that you object to, "irresistible," can mean an irresistible attraction and does not have to mean an irresistible force. Such an illustration is not difficult for any to understand; therefore, you have made yourself out to be someone who does not squarely face reasonable arguments.
I don't see the correlation between simply continuing something that I LIKE, and having to end (traumatically) one lifestyle, and begin another totally different one.

TRUE - the new direction was infinitely better than the OLD one, and HE certainly does require us to "Crucify the flesh" with His assistance and support ROm 8:13 , Col 3:5
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
When Jesus said to Pilate, "You could have no power over Me unless it were given you from above," did that mean that Jesus was not submitting to Pilate's power of His own free will? Did He go to the cross of His own free will even though we know that it was God who give Him into their hands according to God's own wise counsel?
Evasion and rabbit trail. You ignored the post point didnt you sir ?
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
Evasion and rabbit trail. You ignored the post point didnt you sir ?
You asserted that if they were given by the Father then they could not be coming by their free will:
"And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 175which speaks to Election"

Defend or retract
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You asserted that if they were given by the Father then they could not be coming by their free will:
"And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 175which speaks to Election"

Defend or retract
What was the point ?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
What was the point ?
That you have no point and cannot defend your views bu answering simple questions . You make statements and cannot back them up when asked to explain those statements. You respond with rabbit trail or read through 5,000 posts. You are the one with the rabbit trails not everyone else.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That you have no point and cannot defend your views bu answering simple questions . You make statements and cannot back them up when asked to explain those statements. You respond with rabbit trail or read through 5,000 posts. You are the one with the rabbit trails not everyone else.
If theres no point, why do you respond to a pointless post ? You just talk in circles to hear yourself talk !
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
If theres no point, why do you respond to a pointless post ? You just talk in circles to hear yourself talk !
Not really your threads prove that it is actually you that is doing what you just accuse me of doing. You cannot answer two simple questions.

What is the gospel ?
What is faith ?

You mention them and refuse to explain what they mean when asked. That is unchristian, unbiblical and uncharitable.
 

civic

Well-known member
You asserted that if they were given by the Father then they could not be coming by their free will:
"And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 175which speaks to Election"

Defend or retract
Spot on Ken !
 
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