No physical Temples?

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
No, we have no physical temples in which to perform sacred ordinances--the Lord's Supper and Holy Baptism. We don't need them,

We agree with you, Bonnie. You, nor the church you attend--has any need for them.

But the NT testimony is--the people of God do:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Bonnie said:
since each and every believer is a priest to God the Father with Jesus as our great High Priest. Revelation 1:6 says so.

And that somehow covers up or cancels out the testimony here--how?

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I hear crickets. Anyone else? It's been five hours and no response.

It seems to me that if the new testament church had temples that the church of Jesus Christ would have temples. If one sees the temple as the place where God meets with his people, it shouldn't be too difficult to see why and how the church fell apart and why and how the church has again been restored on the earth.

It should not be difficult to see three great movements within the church over the history of it. We have Moses who restored a people that had tradition but no temple, so Moses built one. Then in Jesus' day, Jesus reclaimed the temple and the new testament church worshipped in it, John seeing the latter days when a temple that exceeded their own expectations for temple worship, he asked where did they come from. It was obviously beyond anything he could have expected for a single Jewish only temple. As one of the first things Joseph Smith did was build a temple among a people poor and destitute and pretty much without the means to build it.

That, to me, is significant in that any church of God would have temples, not simple meeting houses where we gather to hear men talk, but a holy place where we gather to hear the Lord talk.
 

Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
We agree with you, Bonnie. You, nor the church you attend--has any need for them.

But the NT testimony is--the people of God do:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



And that somehow covers up or cancels out the testimony here--how?

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
:):) The temple mentioned here is not an earthy or terrestrial temple :):)
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The temple in Rev. 7 here just represents the church. But do note what else is written in Revelation 21:

The New Heaven and the New Earth​

21, 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God....
22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

NO temple in the Heavenly Jerusalem. No need, since God and Christ Jesus dwell in the midst of all of God's people, in heaven. GOD is the temple and Jesus Christ, the Lamb, its lamp.

So, no need for anyone to build any physical temples for any reason. Paul and Peter both call all believers temples of God. We are all built together into a holy sanctuary in Christ Jesus. Plus, Paul, in Acts 17, tells the Athenians that "God does NOT dwell in temples made with human hands."

Which means that God certainly does not dwell in Mormon temples! He would never have anything to do with the deeds of darkness done to their false god within their walls. They are of the devil, the father of lies.
 
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Magdalena

Well-known member
I hear crickets. Anyone else? It's been five hours and no response.

It seems to me that if the new testament church had temples that the church of Jesus Christ would have temples. If one sees the temple as the place where God meets with his people, it shouldn't be too difficult to see why and how the church fell apart and why and how the church has again been restored on the earth.

It should not be difficult to see three great movements within the church over the history of it. We have Moses who restored a people that had tradition but no temple, so Moses built one. Then in Jesus' day, Jesus reclaimed the temple and the new testament church worshipped in it, John seeing the latter days when a temple that exceeded their own expectations for temple worship, he asked where did they come from. It was obviously beyond anything he could have expected for a single Jewish only temple. As one of the first things Joseph Smith did was build a temple among a people poor and destitute and pretty much without the means to build it.

That, to me, is significant in that any church of God would have temples, not simple meeting houses where we gather to hear men talk, but a holy place where we gather to hear the Lord talk.
How many temples did Christ tell people to build while He was here?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
:):) The temple mentioned here is not an earthy or terrestrial temple :):)

Since there is no temple in heaven, when all things are finished--then it has to be a terrestrial temple. Rev 7 seems to be before the seventh seal is opened--and a time on the earth.

The fact is--God is associated with the temple in Rev7--and anyone claiming there is no more need of the temple--lies south of Biblical testimony, IMO.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
How many temples did Christ tell people to build while He was here?
If one can show the existence of any temple--with people working in the temple with white robes--serving God--then the claims of the critics here are false:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Bonnie has maintained there is no need of the temple today.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
If one can show the existence of any temple--with people working in the temple with white robes--serving God--then the claims of the critics here are false:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Bonnie has maintained there is no need of the temple today.
Doesn’t look to me like Revelation is talking about our current time or place.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Doesn’t look to me like Revelation is talking about our current time or place.

Whatever one believes the time frame is--it's still a pattern found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the scriptures.

The temple--with people dressed in white robes--working night and day in God's temple.

That defies any objection that temples aren't necessary anymore.

Mag--the fact is--you and the critics here keep denying the patterns set forth in the scriptures, and found in the NT church--apostles and prophets, temples, priesthood, heavenly revelations, etc--which your church, nor Bonnie's---has received--but the LDS church has.

Don't you find that a little strange? You deny the true pattern set forth in the scriptures, but push a theology found nowhere in the scriptures--and a church foundation which does not exist in the Biblical NT, IE--a church founded on self appointed preachers--not the living, mortal apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the Chief Corner Stone:

Ephesians 2:20---King James Version

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Whatever one believes the time frame is--it's still a pattern found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the scriptures.

The temple--with people dressed in white robes--working night and day in God's temple.

That defies any objection that temples aren't necessary anymore.

Mag--the fact is--you and the critics here keep denying the patterns set forth in the scriptures, and found in the NT church--apostles and prophets, temples, priesthood, heavenly revelations, etc--which your church, nor Bonnie's---has received--but the LDS church has.

Don't you find that a little strange? You deny the true pattern set forth in the scriptures, but push a theology found nowhere in the scriptures--and a church foundation which does not exist in the Biblical NT, IE--a church founded on self appointed preachers--not the living, mortal apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the Chief Corner Stone:

Ephesians 2:20---King James Version
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
I read from the foundation of apostles and prophets every day. We still have that.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I read from the foundation of apostles and prophets every day. We still have that.

There is only one church which can read from the lips of the living, mortal apostles and prophets, as was in the NT--with the heavenly revelations. The rest live only in the past, as to that respect. Just look at the Jews who still reject the NT.

The LDS not only have the past apostles and prophets--their church is presently led by living, mortal apostles and prophets.

Where in the NT were the living, mortal apostles and prophets not leading His church?

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
There is only one church which can read from the lips of the living, mortal apostles and prophets, as was in the NT--with the heavenly revelations. The rest live only in the past, as to that respect. Just look at the Jews who still reject the NT.

The LDS not only have the past apostles and prophets--their church is presently led by living, mortal apostles and prophets.

Where in the NT were the living, mortal apostles and prophets not leading His church?

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
You have false prophets and apostles. That’s not the same thing.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You have false prophets and apostles. That’s not the same thing.

That's no different accusation than what the traditional Jews of the NT were making against the NT apostles and prophets. That means nothing.

The LDS have the living, mortal apostles and prophets--with the heavenly revelations, along with witnesses. That's the NT pattern. You haven't. Neither does any other church.

That's the difference--and denial isn't going to change that.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
That's no different accusation than what the traditional Jews of the NT were making against the NT apostles and prophets. That means nothing.

The LDS have the living, mortal apostles and prophets--with the heavenly revelations, along with witnesses. That's the NT pattern. You haven't. Neither does any other church.

That's the difference--and denial isn't going to change that.
You have false prophecies and false doctrines. That was not the New Testament “pattern.”
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You have false prophecies and false doctrines. That was not the New Testament “pattern.”

Living, mortal apostles and prophets is the NT pattern--along with heavenly revelation with witnesses.

Something which is missing in most churches. You aren't thinking the traditional Jews of the first century church were crying they were true apostles--are you?

Mag--any church which is missing the foundation of Christ's church--always cries "false apostles". What else can they do--but admit their church does not possess the NT pattern?
 

Elijah the Tishbite

Active member
Living, mortal apostles and prophets is the NT pattern--along with heavenly revelation with witnesses.

Something which is missing in most churches. You aren't thinking the traditional Jews of the first century church were crying they were true apostles--are you?

Mag--any church which is missing the foundation of Christ's church--always cries "false apostles". What else can they do--but admit their church does not possess the NT pattern?
Eph. 2:20 does not say that the church is built upon apostles and prophets. It says, "ye ... are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets." The Foundation of the apostles and prophets has always been Jesus Christ! I Cor. 3:11 declares, "Other Foundations can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." In Eph. 2:20, Jesus is referred to as both "the Foundation" and "the Chief Corner Stone." That is no more unusual than the fact that He is "the Author and Finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2), or the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending (Rev. 1:8). While the apostles and prophets did the initial or foundational preaching of the gospel, Christ is the theological foundation of His Church. The Rock in Matt. 16:18 is Christ, the Rock of Ages upon which the church is built (see Rom. 9:33; I Peter 2:3-8; Deut. 32:3-31). A foundation is laid only once and then the building is built. Thus, there is only one Christ and one Foundation of the church. The context in Eph. 2:20-22 declares that Christians are the building growing into "an holy temple in the Lord." If Eph. 2:20 teaches that a new foundation of apostles and prophets is needed in every generation, then it also teaches that a new Christ is needed because He is called the "Chief Corner Stone" in the same sentence!

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims7.htm#lds
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If Eph. 2:20 teaches that a new foundation of apostles and prophets is needed in every generation, then it also teaches that a new Christ is needed because He is called the "Chief Corner Stone" in the same sentence!

You might want to relate that to the Biblical writers:

Acts 14:14---King James Version

14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Where does one find those names in the original twelve?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Eph. 2:20 does not say that the church is built upon apostles and prophets. It says, "ye ... are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets." The Foundation of the apostles and prophets has always been Jesus Christ! I Cor. 3:11 declares, "Other Foundations can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." In Eph. 2:20, Jesus is referred to as both "the Foundation" and "the Chief Corner Stone." That is no more unusual than the fact that He is "the Author and Finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2), or the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending (Rev. 1:8). While the apostles and prophets did the initial or foundational preaching of the gospel, Christ is the theological foundation of His Church. The Rock in Matt. 16:18 is Christ, the Rock of Ages upon which the church is built (see Rom. 9:33; I Peter 2:3-8; Deut. 32:3-31). A foundation is laid only once and then the building is built. Thus, there is only one Christ and one Foundation of the church. The context in Eph. 2:20-22 declares that Christians are the building growing into "an holy temple in the Lord." If Eph. 2:20 teaches that a new foundation of apostles and prophets is needed in every generation, then it also teaches that a new Christ is needed because He is called the "Chief Corner Stone" in the same sentence!

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims7.htm#lds
Very good post and points, Elijah. Thanks. :) And very logical, too!
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Plus, Revelation is rife with imagery, 75% of which is from the OT.
"Imagery" that seems to elude the theology of every non-LDS Christian religion. They have nothing that even comes close to that imagery. But the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't need to imagine anything. It has the imagery in tangible form. In fact, these actually do have multitudes dressed in white, in every nation and language worshipping day and night. No imagery needed.
 
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