No physical Temples?

Magdalena

Well-known member
Sorry, but that does not preclude the fact this is a physical temple where the body of believers served God:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Care to address that with something other than a "taint so!!!"
I have been addressing it. You don’t want to hear anything. You just want to keep posting the same thing obsessively. Seek help for that.
 

organgrinder

Super Member
But the description of this temple fits the LDS temple very well, denials notwithstanding:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



I don't believe an imaginary temple can be measured:

Revelation 11:1---King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.



It patterns the LDS temple--regardless of time frame.
Actually you believe it fits well. It does not and have done ZERO exegesis to prove your assertion. You have eisegesis but no exegesis. You are diverting. The temple of Revelation 7 is real, not imaginary. So answer the questions I posed in #218. Continued eisegesis on your part only shows your inability to think and answer biblically.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Actually you believe it fits well. It does not and have done ZERO exegesis to prove your assertion.

Revelation7:14-15 itself is evidence for my point:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

So--what is there about a real Temple--where the servants of God wear white--and serve God there--not fit the LDS temple description?

Organ--does your church have any such temple--where the servants wear white--and serve God? The LDS do.
 

organgrinder

Super Member
Revelation7:14-15 itself is evidence for my point:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

So--what is there about a real Temple--where the servants of God wear white--and serve God there--not fit the LDS temple description?

Organ--does your church have any such temple--where the servants wear white--and serve God? The LDS do.
You are diverting again. Answer the questions I posted. I assume you can read them. You answer them and then provide an exegesis and I will be happy to answer your question.
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
You are diverting again. Answer the questions I posted. I assume you can read them. You answer them and then provide an exegesis and I will be happy to answer your question.

Nope--this is my OP--and the points made were ----the temples found in Rev are real temples--and describe the LDS temple well. Your position is denial. Others also. You have done nothing to show where Rev7:14-15 isn't a description of an LDS temple. I can see why--because it is.

Bonnie's claim in the OP seems to be there isn't any physical temples--nor is there a need for them.

You have admitted the temple in Revelation is a real temple--that does not bode well for some of the claims of the critics here. I agree--it's a real temple--and not only that, but a temple where His servants are there--dressed in white--and serving God. A close depiction of the LDS temple. I can see why there is denial--there isn't the first temple in the churches of the critics here, nor do some of the critics here even believe there is a need for any temple. The Biblical text just isn't friendly to the positions of some of the critics here.

And certainly not yours. But very friendly to LDS temple rites. I can see why envy and resentment would weave it's way through this thread.
 

organgrinder

Super Member
Nope--this is my OP--and the points made were ----the temples found in Rev are real temples--and describe the LDS temple well. Your position is denial. Others also. You have done nothing to show where Rev7:14-15 isn't a description of an LDS temple. I can see why--because it is.

Bonnie's claim in the OP seems to be there isn't any physical temples--nor is there a need for them.

You have admitted the temple in Revelation is a real temple--that does not bode well for some of the claims of the critics here. I agree--it's a real temple--and not only that, but a temple where His servants are there--dressed in white--and serving God. A close depiction of the LDS temple. I can see why there is denial--there isn't the first temple in the churches of the critics here, nor do some of the critics here even believe there is a need for any temple. The Biblical text just isn't friendly to the positions of some of the critics here.

And certainly not yours. But very friendly to LDS temple rites. I can see why envy and resentment would weave it's way through this thread.
No points were made. You have diverted and apparently afraid to actually exegete the passage and then answer the questions. You obviously didn't read the post either. I said the Revelation temple(s) are real. You missed that. I asked specific questions relative to that. You are afraid to answer and exegete and instead prefer eisegesis. Not sure you even know the difference based on how you answer.

You continually divert, dberrie and it matters not that you are the OP on this thread. It is not "your rules". I refer you back to post #218 and #224. Answer the questions and exegete and I will answer yours. If you can't or refuse, then there is no point continuing as you keep slithering away.
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
No points were made.

Then you didn't read the OP:


Bonnie said:
No, we have no physical temples in which to perform sacred ordinances--the Lord's Supper and Holy Baptism. We don't need them,

We agree with you, Bonnie. You, nor the church you attend--has any need for them.

But the NT testimony is--the people of God do:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Bonnie said:
since each and every believer is a priest to God the Father with Jesus as our great High Priest. Revelation 1:6 says so.

And that somehow covers up or cancels out the testimony here--how?

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
 

organgrinder

Super Member
Then you didn't read the OP:




We agree with you, Bonnie. You, nor the church you attend--has any need for them.

But the NT testimony is--the people of God do:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



And that somehow covers up or cancels out the testimony here--how?

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Finished with you. Diversions and refusal to defend your claims. You are a phony. Bye...again.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You have diverted and apparently afraid to actually exegete the passage and then answer the questions.

There is nothing to fear--the Biblical reference plays right into the LDS temple:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The only ones who have need to fear--are those who cannot find any pattern in their church to correlate to that. The LDS can.

So--what do you find in those verses which you don't believe fits the LDS temple very closely?

You obviously didn't read the post either. I said the Revelation temple(s) are real.

They are real. And so are LDS temples. And so is the correlation between the verses in Revelation 7:14-15--and LDS temples.

I refer you back to post #218 and #224. Answer the questions and exegete and I will answer yours. If you can't or refuse, then there is no point continuing as you keep slithering away.

And I refer you to Rev7:14-15--and ask you to find anything in there which does not pattern the LDS temple. I also ask--why any critic here would claim there is no need for the temple--when the Biblical text plainly states there is.

Is it because there isn't any temple in any denomination--except the LDS church--and one has to have something to cover that nakedness?

Organ--"taint so"--isn't a very compelling nor convincing response. Neither are your accusations--they won't make the temple reference go away, found in Revelation--or the fact Rev7:14-15 closely patterns LDS temple rites.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
There is nothing to fear--the Biblical reference plays right into the LDS temple:
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Do you guys do the "palm" thing?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Do you guys do the "palm" thing?


Revelation 7:9-15---King James Version
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

A couple of points here--those who are before the throne may be the same as those in the temple--but those two events are separated from one another. Digging to find some difference won't mitigate the fact Rev14-15--where they are in the temple serving--is a very close match with the LDS temple.

Crow--attempting to find a mote in the LDS eye--when you have a beam in your own(no temples at all)--isn't an effective argument.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Revelation 7:9-15---King James Version
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

A couple of points here--those who are before the throne may be the same as those in the temple--but those two events are separated from one another. Digging to find some difference won't mitigate the fact Rev14-15--where they are in the temple serving--is a very close match with the LDS temple.

Crow--attempting to find a mote in the LDS eye--when you have a beam in your own(no temples at all)--isn't an effective argument.
Because you have a "close match"...as you put it...to the Rev temple....means nothing. Absolutly nothing.
The responces to this "we look like the temple" thread present more mismatches than matches.
They have been pointed out numerous times....and you keep on responding with the same ole stuff.

Concerning the palms in their hands....I've searched and couldn't find any mormons holding palms in their hands.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Because you have a "close match"...as you put it...to the Rev temple....means nothing. Absolutly nothing.

It means the temple description found in Rev7:14-15 is a match to LDS temples. It also means your church isn't in the running, as your church doesn't have a temple.

As I have often stated--the critics here share precious little with the Biblical NT. The LDS do.

The responces to this "we look like the temple" thread present more mismatches than matches.

You, nor anyone else--has shown the first difference between the description found in Rev7:14-15 and the LDS temple.

Again--your church isn't even in the race--it doesn't even have a temple. The LDS do--and it closely patterns the description found in Rev7:14-15.

Physician--heal thyself. Look to the deficient in your own church.

Concerning the palms in their hands....I've searched and couldn't find any mormons holding palms in their hands.

And I don't find it in the temple description of Rev7:14-15. When you do--please let us know.
 

Yitoz

Active member
The tabernacle was a type of Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the types embedded into the spring feasts (Passover, Unleavened bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost) that were types or shadow pictures revealed in the OT pointing to His first advent. When He returns, He will fulfill the types and shadow pictures embedded in the fall feasts (Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement - for Israel, and Tabernacles), all of which also point to Him as their fulfillment. When Jesus shed His blood for the propitiation of sins upon the cross, that part of the Mosaic law was fulfilled, which included the need for all Levitical/Aaronic duties and sacrifices. This is what the Book of Hebrews goes into depth to explain. Since mormon temples don't represents types and shadow pictures of Jesus for the fulfillment of either His first or second advents, then it is plain that they have nothing to do with His fulfillment of the numerous OT prophecies and types for either of His advents. When the veil was torn, Jesus opened up the way into the throne room of God by His blood alone. There is no other way into the presence of the Father but through Jesus alone. IMO, because mormon temples have erected a veil to hinder one's entrance into the presence of the Father, then they have denied the efficacy of the precious blood of the Savior that has been shed for all who would call upon Him for their salvation by faith in His sacrifice for them.

For more info about the types of Jesus embedded into the design of the tabernacle, please see below. the Temple on Mt. Zion in Jerusalem was a more ornate and permanent version of the tabernacle, but the interior maintained the types found in the original tabernacle.

 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
The tabernacle was a type of Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the types embedded into the spring feasts (Passover, Unleavened bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost) that were types or shadow pictures revealed in the OT pointing to His first advent. When He returns, He will fulfill the types and shadow pictures embedded in the fall feasts (Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement - for Israel, and Tabernacles), all of which also point to Him as their fulfillment. When Jesus shed His blood for the propitiation of sins upon the cross, that part of the Mosaic law was fulfilled, which included the need for all Levitical/Aaronic duties and sacrifices.

It certainly ended the need for sacrifices found under the Mosaic Law--and those duties--but not the priesthood:

Exodus 40:15---King James Version

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

So, as a separate inquiry--what priesthood accompanied these priests?

Revelation 1:6---King James Version

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
When the veil was torn, Jesus opened up the way into the throne room of God by His blood alone. There is no other way into the presence of the Father but through Jesus alone. IMO, because mormon temples have erected a veil to hinder one's entrance into the presence of the Father, then they have denied the efficacy of the precious blood of the Savior that has been shed for all who would call upon Him for their salvation by faith in His sacrifice for them.

The tearing of the veil represented the way to God was open to all men, as an opportunity, as His Atonement was for all men, as a free gift.

That does not mean the kingdom of God is without a veil, as a personal reception--as only those found worthy of that kingdom can enter therein:

2 Thessalonians 1:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Since mormon temples don't represents types and shadow pictures of Jesus for the fulfillment of either His first or second advents,

What is there about the descriptions found in Rev7:14-15--which you don't believe directly types the LDS temple?

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Yitoz--what temple does your church have which types the Biblical record there?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
All temple ceremonies require white--whether it be initiatory, wedding, baptism, endowment, etc.



Where are you getting that from? The parts of the temple where temple rites are performed-- require white clothing, regardless of area. What is your evidence otherwise?

And that does match the description found in Revelation7:14-15.
Try to keep up with the conversation. It was about Masonic temple ceremonies.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Try to keep up with the conversation. It was about Masonic temple ceremonies.

And, as I noted--the LDS temple rites require white clothing in all their ceremonies. The Masonic ceremonies do not.

Masons do not even claim their rites are religious ceremonies, that I am aware of, as to Christianity---and it has no theology, as to that position.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
And, as I noted--the LDS temple rites require white clothing in all their ceremonies. The Masonic ceremonies do not.

Masons do not even claim their rites are religious ceremonies, that I am aware of, as to Christianity---and it has no theology, as to that position.
Masons do wear white in their initiatory rites.
 
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