No Salvation Without the Human Element

GeneZ

Well-known member
Adam is the federal head of the race. He was not born. When he was created by God he was not created in the image of man as we know him today because there was no such man as that but he was created in the image and likeness of God. What is that image? To know that, one can examine the only other man in the OT who the scriptures says was in the image of God and that man is Jesus Christ. See it here;


In Genesis 1:27... The Hebrew word for create means to create something out from nothing. "Bara"

What was created in Genesis 1:27 were the male and female souls. Souls yet awaiting a body to live in.

In Genesis 2... the body was not so created as in Genesis 1:27. It was not created "out from nothing. " Instead, the body was molded and formed with elements of the earth. "Jatsar" Soil which had already been created "out from nothing" as found in Genesis One.
 

JDS

Well-known member
In Genesis 1:27... The Hebrew word for create means to create something out from nothing. "Bara"

What was created in Genesis 1:27 were the male and female souls. Souls yet awaiting a body to live in.

In Genesis 2... the body was not so created as in Genesis 1:27. It was not created "out from nothing. " Instead, the body was molded and formed with elements of the earth. "Jatsar" Soil which had already been created "out from nothing" as found in Genesis One.
You kiddeth??
 

JDS

Well-known member
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Dead in their sins and trespasses. (Eph 2:1)

Spiritually dead. For the flesh dominated over ones soul. Making that soul unable to choose for God.

Now... the sin nature resides in the "flesh." The soul is dominated by the flesh and is as if one is in a constant drunkenness that one is born into, and knows no better. The Law shouted at the soul to tell that drunk to pull over and stop driving. But, it did not stop the drunk state from being.

Now, we can see grace working in the believer as the Holy Spirit takes dominance and control over the flesh, so that ones soul can choose to live for Christ!

Its the flesh the ruins the soul's ability to live the things of God. Not the other way around.

Now? If the Holy Spirit can (and, He can) control the flesh of an unbeliever just long enough, so that the soul will be made free of the sin nature? At that moment of his soul being freed up by grace, that person can decide if he believes Jesus died for his sins. Without grace? It could never happen. No man could believe.

Without God's grace? No one could believe because the sin nature would never be abated. That is why its "by grace" we have been saved. "Through faith" - which faith comes by that freed soul hearing the Word of God. (Rom 10:17)

Some Calvinists think in a manner as to assume the sin nature resides in both the material flesh and the immaterial soul. If that were the case? No one's soul could be saved even by grace. Only the soul is what God saves, and tosses our flesh into the garbage can by means of the Cross.

Our sin nature resides in the flesh.

The flesh (our body) when we get drunk overwhelms the soul as to do what it would not want to do when sober. Likewise, God's power of the Holy Spirit? Can easily suppress our sin nature's negative inebriating influence over our soul. Thus, the Holy Spirit makes our soul freed up from the flesh to think without the 'slave master' sin nature cutting us off from God's Word.

Arminianism does not teach what I just posted.

grace and peace.......
Man is spiritually dead until he is made alive.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Well was lazarus physically dead until he was made alive? And if so what do you call that?
You are confusing physical death for spiritual death. You can be physically alive, but spiritually dead. That is why people need to be born again, to be made alive spiritually.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You really remind me of someone I met in first year of Bible college. I knew someone just like you.

I am not confused.
It's simple. A Spiritually dead person needs to be resurrected to spiritual life before they can act in a spiritual manner.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
It's simple. A Spiritually dead person needs to be resurrected to spiritual life before they can act in a spiritual manner.


Its not simple because you hide too much info and throw stuff out. A simple person could understand that if you attempted to explain what you meant.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
In Genesis 1:27... The Hebrew word for create means to create something out from nothing. "Bara" Instant creation.

What was created in Genesis 1:27 were the male and female souls. Souls that were yet awaiting a body to live in. That body was given in Genesis 2.


Its the SOUL that was created in God's image. Not the body. Genesis 1:27 states what was created in God's image.

The body is just a temple for the soul to live in while living in the material created world.

Its the body that became corrupted when Adam sinned. Since then, the corrupted flesh dominates and enslaves the soul into the ways of sin.
The original sinless body of Adam perfectly reflected his soul. It did not enslave his soul.

Just the same. Your soul remained being your soul at the point of regeneration. Not your body, though.. Its declared crucified with Christ.

The Holy Spirit is now in us to provide control (grace) over the power of the flesh as to no longer allow for the enslavement the soul because of the flesh.. The humble believer receives grace from God. The arrogant believer is not given grace, and ends up trying to live the Christian way of life by means of the energy of his flesh. Its why we see snarky believers attempting to disrupt the exchanging of truth to clarify.

Though declared legally crucified, he flesh can still influence us. Our flesh has to be unlearned as we learn more and more of the Word of God, and discover many of the provisions God has provided for us to walk righteously in our experience.
 

JDS

Well-known member
In Genesis 1:27... The Hebrew word for create means to create something out from nothing. "Bara" Instant creation.

What was created in Genesis 1:27 were the male and female souls. Souls that were yet awaiting a body to live in. That body was given in Genesis 2.


Its the SOUL that was created in God's image. Not the body. Genesis 1:27 states what was created in God's image.

The body is just a temple for the soul to live in while living in the material created world.

Its the body that became corrupted when Adam sinned. Since then, the corrupted flesh dominates and enslaves the soul into the ways of sin.
The original sinless body of Adam perfectly reflected his soul. It did not enslave his soul.

Just the same. Your soul remained being your soul at the point of regeneration. Not your body, though.. Its declared crucified with Christ.

The Holy Spirit is now in us to provide control (grace) over the power of the flesh as to no longer allow for the enslavement the soul because of the flesh.. The humble believer receives grace from God. The arrogant believer is not given grace, and ends up trying to live the Christian way of life by means of the energy of his flesh. Its why we see snarky believers attempting to disrupt the exchanging of truth to clarify.

Though declared legally crucified, he flesh can still influence us. Our flesh has to be unlearned as we learn more and more of the Word of God, and discover many of the provisions God has provided for us to walk righteously in our experience.

New age stuff, GeneZ. Nobody is going to buy mysticism. The image of God is simple trintarian, soul, body, and Spirit of God as it relates to men. It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost as it relates to God. We, men, are the only creations of God who bears this image of God. The angels don not bear this image because it says of them, "are they not ministering spirits sent forth to minister unto them who shall be heirs of salvation Heb 214. Satan in the garden when he tempted Eve had to borrow a body from the serpent. Paul, the great apostle said these words to the redeemed of God;

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The blessed hope of the Christian is the glorification of the body so we can occupy the heavens physically and is the meaning of predestination in the scriptures;

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The problem some of you guys are having is you do not believe the words God gives us so we can know him and be saved.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
New age stuff, GeneZ. Nobody is going to buy mysticism.
Do you work for CNN? Or, MSNBC?

You're a false reporter..

And, you got a closed mind.

I am not going to waste time with you. Who will only waste my time.

There are those who want to know. And, like you? Only want to "no."

:giggle::coffee:☝️ You're on Ignore, and out the door.

If anyone is interested, they can restart where you wanted to block.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
For those who would like to use the "ignore" feature, but who haven't figured it out, I just stumbled upon it...

You click on the name of the user to get their home page, and there will be an option to "ignore" the poster. Once you select it, you can still see that the poster has responded, but it hides the content. At least it's something.... :)
Yup it's works well!
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
It's simple. A Spiritually dead person needs to be resurrected to spiritual life before they can act in a spiritual manner.
Resurrected would mean he once lived. Died. And was brought back to life.

But, we not spiritually alive to begin with. We were born physically alive, but spiritually.

On the other hand..

Born again places a life where one was not living.

After you are born again we become resurrected in Christ. Its his resurrection we enter into.

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with
him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.
" Eph 2:6

How can we be seated with Him now?

Where was Eve before Adam was put into the deep sleep? She was... "in Adam."

We are the bride of Christ! We are now in Him! Like the woman before Adam's rib was removed.. Awaiting to be revealed!

We will be? Bone of His bone... glorious flesh of His glorious body. Just like His!

grace and peace......
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
gene

Resurrected would mean he once lived. Died. And was brought back to life.

Well was man alive to God once in the beginning in Adam ? 1 Cor 15 22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
gene



Well was man alive to God once in the beginning in Adam ? 1 Cor 15 22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

As far as spiritually ? We were all spiritual stillborns from Adam.
As far as physically? We all eventually die physically from Adam.

In Adam all died spiritually. In contrast, many have been made alive "physically" in Adam. Only to die.

Jesus called physically alive unbelievers "dead." Spiritually dead.

We were never spiritually alive until we were found in Christ.
To be resurrected we would have needed to have been alive first, and then died.

Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and
let the dead bury their own dead.”

Matthew 8:21-22
 
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