Not born Hardened or Blind

TomFL

Well-known member
That's why man needed to be born again. His heart by nature is hard and impenitent.
Your are still ignoring the evidence

and depravity is not the same as ability

Being a sinner does not mean one cannot confess he is a sinner and believe
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Your are still ignoring the evidence

and depravity is not the same as ability

Being a sinner does not mean one cannot confess he is a sinner and believe
Man must be born again. In his first birth of the flesh he has a hard heart of stone.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Man must be born again. In his first birth of the flesh he has a hard heart of stone.
Born again through faith

Man is not so totally inabled he cannot respond in faith

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Born again through faith

Man is not so totally inabled he cannot respond in faith

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Man naturally doesnt have the fruit of the Spirit which faith comes from Gal 5:22. The natural man in the flesh cannot please God which Faith from the Spirit does. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 
Matt. 13:15 —ESV
“For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’”

Rather their heart had grown that way and their eyes they have closed
So are you born saved? Born in a neutral state?? Only to loose it at some point and must believe to regain it again?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So are you born saved? Born in a neutral state?? Only to loose it at some point and must believe to regain it again?
Did some one say saved ?

No

Rather the issue was were these born in their condition or had they grown that way.

The text is pretty clear they became that way in time

Matt. 13:15 —ESV
“For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’”

Rather their heart had grown that way and their eyes they have closed
 
Did some one say saved ?

No

Rather the issue was were these born in their condition or had they grown that way.

The text is pretty clear they became that way in time

Matt. 13:15 —ESV
“For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’”

Rather their heart had grown that way and their eyes they have close

So what was their original condition? You skipped that question. Who is "this people"?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Man naturally doesnt have the fruit of the Spirit which faith comes from Gal 5:22. The natural man in the flesh cannot please God which Faith from the Spirit does. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The issue was being born again by the gospel through faith

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The issue was being born again by the gospel through faith

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration
Man cannot even believe the Gospel in a lost state of unregeneracy, its hid from him permanently in that condition. 2 Cor 4:3
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Man cannot even believe the Gospel in a lost state of unregeneracy, its hid from him permanently in that condition. 2 Cor 4:3

Scripture show you are wrong

Men are regenerated through faith in the gospel

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture show you are wrong

Men are regenerated through faith in the gospel

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration
Scripture shows that Im right, what you think 2 Cor 4:3 is ? The daily newspaper
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Scripture shows that Im right, what you think 2 Cor 4:3 is ? The daily newspaper
No scripture says you are wrong

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No scripture says you are wrong

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith
Scripture is fine. Thats what tells me that the lost unregenerate person has been blinded to the Gospel ! Cant possibly believe a Gospel that is hidden from you
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Scripture is fine. Thats what tells me that the lost unregenerate person has been blinded to the Gospel ! Cant possibly believe a Gospel that is hidden from you
Don't why don't you believe it

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Don't why don't you believe it

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
I never said I dont believe those scriptures. I believe 2 Cor 4:3 also, which declares the Lost have the Gospel hidden from them, they are blinded by satan the god of this world, and they are born that way, all men are !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I never said I dont believe those scriptures. I believe 2 Cor 4:3 also, which declares the Lost have the Gospel hidden from them, they are blinded by satan the god of this world, and they are born that way, all men are !
Of course you don't

It shows the gospel (and naturally faith in it) must precede regeneration

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Of course you don't

It shows the gospel (and naturally faith in it) must precede regeneration

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
I like to know how a lost and mind blinded person can believe the Gospel which is hidden from them. 2 Cor 4:3
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I like to know how a lost and mind blinded person can believe the Gospel which is hidden from them. 2 Cor 4:3
What did you not understand

It shows the gospel (and naturally faith in it) must precede regeneration

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What did you not understand

It shows the gospel (and naturally faith in it) must precede regeneration

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
I understand those scriptures , you don't, you just quote them and hope you right. Now what do you not understand about the lost have the Gospel hidden from them 2 Cor 4:3?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I understand those scriptures , you don't, you just quote them and hope you right. Now what do you not understand about the lost have the Gospel hidden from them 2 Cor 4:3?
No I don't think you do

They shows the gospel (and naturally faith in it) must precede regeneration

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Rom. 1:16 —KJV
“¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

would you imagine disobedience to the gospel results in regeneration

and 2Co 4:3 still says nothing at all about regeneration preceding faith

and you cannot assume all are blinded by Satan
 
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