"not by works"

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You asked me to show an example of faith without works. I cannot. I agree; true faith is always WITH works, always ACCOMPANIED by works, unless the person dies right after confessing faith in Jesus.

What I CAN show you is SALVATION WITHOUT WORKS. Like in Luke 7:50--"Your FAITH has SAVED YOU; go in peace."

So--could Bonnie explain this for us? That only indicated "true faith" isn't necessary for salvation. IMO--that's a very confused testimony.

"For it is by grace we are saved; through faith--and that is not of yourselves; It is the gift of God--and NOT BY WORKS, so no one may boast."

"Now to the one who does NOT work, but believes in Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness."

'He saved us, NOT on account of works we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy."

See works of ours added to faith as to what saves us? SAVES US?

Since these are the scriptures which are thrown up whenever the LDS post scriptures connecting a faith with works in obtaining salvation--I thought we could discuss them in detail in this thread.

So--I'll take each of these verses separately--and discuss them from a LDS perspective--and the faith alone adherents can counter with their point of view, IE--

"For it is by grace we are saved; through faith--and that is not of yourselves; It is the gift of God--and NOT BY WORKS, so no one may boast."

Since no one is claiming one is saved by works--I'm going to ask Bonnie--what is her point here? The testimony of Ephesians2 claims one is saved by God's grace--through faith. Not by works. And neither does it state one is saved by faith either, independent of God's grace--and especially not through a faith without works(dead faith)--which the faith alone claim.

So--what is the faith alone evidence Paul was referring to a faith without works? Paul states it isn't by works--but he never states it's a faith without works one is saved through.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

If Paul believed one is saved by grace through a faith without works--then why would he testify Christians would be judged in accordance with their own works--after death?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
So--could Bonnie explain this for us? That only indicated "true faith" isn't necessary for salvation. IMO--that's a very confused testimony.

Since these are the scriptures which are thrown up whenever the LDS post scriptures connecting a faith with works in obtaining salvation--I thought we could discuss them in detail in this thread.

So--I'll take each of these verses separately--and discuss them from a LDS perspective--and the faith alone adherents can counter with their point of view, IE--

"Now to the one who does NOT work, but believes in Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness."

Paul is explaining Abraham did not live under the law of works(Mosaic Law)--IOW--the traditional Jews who were running to "father Abraham" to claim their elect status, because they were the natural seed of Abraham--needed to take note of the fact "father Abraham" did not live under the law of works(Mosaic Law)--but rather, the gospel of Jesus Christ--as Abraham was 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law, and the works therein. IE--The very gospel Paul was attempting to bring to the Jews--and they were rejecting in lieu of the Mosaic Law.

IOW--Abraham lived under the gospel of faith in Christ, not the Mosaic Law.

So--was this Abraham's faith?

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Additional question--why would Paul connect works with eternal life--two chapters earlier--and then claim eternal life was independent of works?

Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good,to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Could someone explain that for us--because if they can't--then the either the Bible is an unreliable source of truth--or the faith alone are applying a false interpretation to the verse Bonnie posts above?

Also--Jesus justified all men in His Atonement--including the ungodly,-- (or those who would never accept Him)--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are now absolved(justified) from the condemnation of the Fall--and now answer for their own choices--and not Adam's. Death and hell conquered for all men--as it relates to the Fall. (Atonement and Resurrection)

Only the second death has any effect on men now--who do not obey the Redeemer's conditions, IE-- to follow Him.

Revelation 20:12-14---King James Version
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Since these are the scriptures which are thrown up whenever the LDS post scriptures connecting a faith with works in obtaining salvation--I thought we could discuss them in detail in this thread.

So--I'll take each of these verses separately--and discuss them from a LDS perspective--and the faith alone adherents can counter with their point of view, IE--


'He saved us, NOT on account of works we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy."

Titus 3:5---King James Version
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


By the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.—
Seeing, then, that God has saved us by His own act, independently of any work of ours, we ask, How has He effected this? The words we are here considering give the answer to the question. The Greek should be rendered, “by the laver of regeneration,” &c. Then, by means of the laver of regeneration, &c, has God put us into a state of salvation. In other words, He has effected this by means of “baptism” (for the laver here can only signify the baptismal font, and is called the laver of regeneration because it is the vessel consecrated to the use of that sacrament), whereby, in its completeness as a sacrament, the new life in Christ is conveyed.

By the washing of regeneration
Properly through the washing or through the laver; the preposition expresses the channel or means through which; the ‘washing’ or ‘laver’ ‘of regeneration’ is evidently one phrase for the sacrament of Holy Baptism. The genitive marks the attribute or inseparable accompaniments,’ Winer § 30 2 b, who quotes Mark 1:4, ‘repentance-baptism.’ Cf. Colossians 1:22, ‘his flesh-body,’ i.e. His material, natural body, distinguished from the mystical body before mentioned. Cf. also ‘the fire of testing,’ Teaching of the Twelve Apostles xvi. 5.

IOW--it is God's mercy which saves--not our works--but that mercy is applied through water baptism, IE--

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Paul is explaining Abraham did not live under the law of works(Mosaic Law)--IOW--the traditional Jews who were running to "father Abraham" to claim their elect status, because they were the natural seed of Abraham--needed to take note of the fact "father Abraham" did not live under the law of works(Mosaic Law)--but rather, the gospel of Jesus Christ--as Abraham was 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law, and the works therein. IE--The very gospel Paul was attempting to bring to the Jews--and they were rejecting in lieu of the Mosaic Law.

IOW--Abraham lived under the gospel of faith in Christ, not the Mosaic Law.

So--was this Abraham's faith?

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Additional question--why would Paul connect works with eternal life--two chapters earlier--and then claim eternal life was independent of works?

Romans 2:5-11---King James Version
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good,to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Could someone explain that for us--because if they can't--then the either the Bible is an unreliable source of truth--or the faith alone are applying a false interpretation to the verse Bonnie posts above?

Also--Jesus justified all men in His Atonement--including the ungodly,-- (or those who would never accept Him)--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are now absolved(justified) from the condemnation of the Fall--and now answer for their own choices--and not Adam's. Death and hell conquered for all men--as it relates to the Fall. (Atonement and Resurrection)

Only the second death has any effect on men now--who do not obey the Redeemer's conditions, IE-- to follow Him.

Revelation 20:12-14---King James Version
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
In Luke 7:50, what did Jesus actually say saved the woman?

"Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
 

Bonnie

Super Member
So--could Bonnie explain this for us? That only indicated "true faith" isn't necessary for salvation. IMO--that's a very confused testimony.



Since these are the scriptures which are thrown up whenever the LDS post scriptures connecting a faith with works in obtaining salvation--I thought we could discuss them in detail in this thread.

So--I'll take each of these verses separately--and discuss them from a LDS perspective--and the faith alone adherents can counter with their point of view, IE--

"For it is by grace we are saved; through faith--and that is not of yourselves; It is the gift of God--and NOT BY WORKS, so no one may boast."

Since no one is claiming one is saved by works--I'm going to ask Bonnie--what is her point here?

You should know by now--we have explained it to you numerous times--I, Bob C., Theo, organgrinder, John t, CrowCross--but you refuse to listen to us, don't you?
The testimony of Ephesians2 claims one is saved by God's grace--through faith. Not by works. And neither does it state one is saved by faith either, independent of God's grace--and especially not through a faith without works(dead faith)--which the faith alone claim.

So--what is the faith alone evidence Paul was referring to a faith without works? Paul states it isn't by works--but he never states it's a faith without works one is saved through.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And how do we do "good"? "For we are CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS for good works, which God has prepared in advance for us to do, so that we may walk in them"--remember?

There is another way to take this 2 Corinthian's verse, isn't there? It can mean that the "good" we receive is heaven, for those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the "bad" will be hell, for those who are NOT, when Jesus comes again...got it?

Remember what Jesus said, in John 5?

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

ALREADY passed from death to life...done deal, isn't it?
If Paul believed one is saved by grace through a faith without works--then why would he testify Christians would be judged in accordance with their own works--after death?
See above...IN WHOM do we do good works? Paul tells us right in Eph. 2:10, doesn't he? Yet again:

"For you are GOD'S WORKMANSHIP, created IN Christ Jesus for good works, which He prepared beforehand for us to do, so that we may walk in them."

So, good works done IN Christ Jesus means works done IN faith in Him, correct? So, that means that when God sees us, He sees Jesus' perfect works in us, which are ours by grace through faith in HIM--get it, now?

Perfectly easy to reconcile the two verses--wasn't it?

NOW--Let's see if you will actually give me a direct, CORRECT answer to THIS question:

What did Jesus say actually SAVED the woman, in Luke 7:50?

"Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

What word did Jesus ACTUALLY SAY saved the woman? THE EXACT WORD?
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
In Luke 7:50, what did Jesus actually say saved the woman?

"Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
So, basically, what I gather from this is you believe in “once saved always saved.” Correct?

1) Notice that the Mormon, AS USUAL, simply DODGES the question asked.

2) Notice that the Mormon, AS USUAL, tries to derail discussion AWAY from Mormonism, and instead try to attack Christianity.

3) Notice that the Mormon does NOT describe how he understands "once saved, always saved", and has in the past demonstrated that he doesn't understand what it means.

This poster thinks "once saved, always saved" means you cannot lose your salvation, even if you continue to live a life of unrepentant sin. And so, NO, we do NOT believe that.




So let's try to get this thread BACK ON TRACK:

Aaron, please answer Bonnie's question:



In Luke 7:50, what did Jesus actually say saved the woman?

"Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
 

Bonnie

Super Member
So, basically, what I gather from this is you believe in “once saved always saved.” Correct?
No--how on earth did you come up with that, when all I did was ask what did Jesus say actually saved the woman, in Luke 7:50??

Can we say "diversionary tactic"? Yes, we can....
 

Bonnie

Super Member
explain it again or link a post to where you explained it before. All I see are excuses for not explaining it, like this one that you just gave.
Sorry, boJ, but I have explained it before many times, both on here and on the Lutheran board. I have cut and pasted excerpts from old threads and put them on here and other boards. But for your edification, here is one spot:

A Mormon tries to attack "Faith Alone" | Page 5 | CARM Forums

Posts nos. 96 and 99.

And here:

A crosswalk article | Page 8 | CARM Forums

Post no. 147. This was in answer to one of your posts. I don't know if you ever saw this or responded to it, but it is there.

Here is another place on this board:

Mormonism is not Biblical. | Page 2 | CARM Forums

Post nos. 24 and 25.

So, ,yes, it has been explained on here many times--both on these boards, and the last two boards.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
explain it again or link a post to where you explained it before. All I see are excuses for not explaining it, like this one that you just gave.

You mean like YOU keep falsely claiming you've dealt with all the "only one god exists" passages, but NEVER offering "explain it again or link a post"?

Double standards much?
Rules for me but not for thee?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
You mean like YOU keep falsely claiming you've dealt with all the "only one god exists" passages, but NEVER offering "explain it again or link a post"?

Double standards much?
Rules for me but not for thee?
And we have explained it on here, haven't we, Theo?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And how do we do "good"? "For we are CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS for good works, which God has prepared in advance for us to do, so that we may walk in them"--remember?

And your claim is--we obtain eternal life independent of fulfilling the very measure we were created for? Yeah, right.

There is another way to take this 2 Corinthian's verse, isn't there? It can mean that the "good" we receive is heaven, for those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the "bad" will be hell, for those who are NOT, when Jesus comes again...got it?

The scripture does not say we receive "good"--it states they receive from God--according to what we have done--whether it be good or bad.(the "good" is according to what one does)

Anathema to faith alone theology.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Remember what Jesus said, in John 5?

ALREADY passed from death to life...done deal, isn't it?

If one conforms to this criteria, yes:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Bonnie--you aren't going to shape that into faith alone theology--it just ain't gonna fit. It's like attempting to fit a bowling ball into a marble sack.

Now--if one were to attempt fit the Savior's testimony in John 5:28-29 into LDS theology--they wouldn't have any trouble at all doing that.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
So, that means that when God sees us, He sees Jesus' perfect works in us, which are ours by grace through faith in HIM--get it, now?

If Jesus just sees His perfect work in us--then why are all men judged according their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 16:27--King James Version

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
And your claim is--we obtain eternal life independent of fulfilling the very measure we were created for? Yeah, right.



The scripture does not say we receive "good"--it states they receive from God--according to what we have done--whether it be good or bad.(the "good" is according to what one does)

Anathema to faith alone theology.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


If one conforms to this criteria, yes:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Bonnie--you aren't going to shape that into faith alone theology--it just ain't gonna fit. It's like attempting to fit a bowling ball into a marble sack.

Now--if one were to attempt fit the Savior's testimony in John 5:28-29 into LDS theology--they wouldn't have any trouble at all doing that.


Didn't you read w hat I wrote in post no. 5? Do you think my answer will change?

Do we do "good" in or outside of faith in Christ Jesus our Lord? IN whom are we created to DO good works? WHO has prepared us ahead of time to do them? And HOW are we able to "walk" in them?

So, what works save us? Do works done in righteousness save us?

"He saved us, NOT on the basis of works done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy." (Titus 3)

Or works of the Law?:

"By works of the Law will no one be justified."

So what kind of works are left that we must do, in order to be saved? That you think Jesus is talking about in John 5? Since neither righteous--good--works save us, OR works of the Law?

But you once again truncated John 5--didn't you? You always seem to leave off this pesky little verse, don't you, dberrie?

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

HAS passed--it's a done deal, isn't it, dberrie?

So, "doing good" can simply mean BELIEVING IN AND TRUST IN JESUS to save us--couldn't it? That IS "doing good"--isn't it?

Remember this verse, dberrie? "For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish, but have eternal life." So, what does "believes in" mean, dberrie? Doesn't it mean "to trust, have FAITH, have confidence in"?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

What did Jesus say ACTUALLY SAVED the woman, dberrie? What actual word did He use? Did He add anything to that one word? Will you give me a direct, correct answer, instead of tap-dancing all around it, as per usual?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Do we do "good" in or outside of faith in Christ Jesus our Lord? IN whom are we created to DO good works? WHO has prepared us ahead of time to do them? And HOW are we able to "walk" in them?

How are you relating any of that to the testimony all will be judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 16:27--King James Version

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If that is true--faith alone theology is false. I'm not sure how you are relating any of your questions above to that?

So, what works save us? Do works done in righteousness save us?

Where has anyone claimed works, in and by themselves-- saves anyone?

What can be shown is--those who do His works--are given His grace unto life:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Anathema to faith alone theology.

Exactly what one will find being taught in the LDS church.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Sorry, boJ, but I have explained it before many times, both on here and on the Lutheran board. I have cut and pasted excerpts from old threads and put them on here and other boards. But for your edification, here is one spot:
Well, last time you did that, it didn't work out so well.

To be clear, this is what you are supposed to be explaining:
true faith is always WITH works, always ACCOMPANIED by works
and
What I CAN show you is SALVATION WITHOUT WORKS ... "Your FAITH has SAVED YOU; go in peace."
Your two statements here which, on their face, are mutually exclusive - can't have both. The questions that was to be explained is:
So--could Bonnie explain this for us? That only indicated "true faith" isn't necessary for salvation. IMO--that's a very confused testimony.
Posts nos. 96 and 99.
I can't see either of these posts, but judging by dberrie's response to it, it is as much a non-answer as yours has been so far.
The same way you answer it here--"I've answered it ten million times already."

That seems to be the pat answer.
Post no. 147. This was in answer to one of your posts. I don't know if you ever saw this or responded to it, but it is there.
Nope. Can't see that one either. I can't argue what was said since I can't see it, but why are you providing answers to "one of my posts" when the post we're seeking an answer to is one of your posts? I have to assume this is also a non-answer.
Post nos. 24 and 25.
Nope. I can't read posts 24 or 25.
So, ,yes, it has been explained on here many times--both on these boards, and the last two boards.
So that's three swings and three misses. Three strikes you're out! Just kidding. I have no idea what Theo was saying or if he answered the question that was posed to you. Perhaps you would care to repeat the pertinent portions of his posts so that I may be enlightened.

But, I somehow suspect that none of those answers are relevant to the question that was asked of you.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
How are you relating any of that to the testimony all will be judged according to their own works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 16:27--King James Version

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If that is true--faith alone theology is false. I'm not sure how you are relating any of your questions above to that?



Where has anyone claimed works, in and by themselves-- saves anyone?

What can be shown is--those who do His works--are given His grace unto life:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Anathema to faith alone theology.

Exactly what one will find being taught in the LDS church.

"And this is His commandment, that we believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He has commanded us." (1 John 3)

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8)

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."(Romans 13)

"For God so loved the word, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

"For it is by grace you are saved, through faith--and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God--and not by works, so no one may boast."

"Your FAITH HAS SAVED you, go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

See anything here about doing temple works, covenants, and ordinances being necessay to have eternal life in heaven?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
"For God so loved the word, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

Are these the ones who believe on Him?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"For it is by grace you are saved, through faith--and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God--and not by works, so no one may boast."

Are these the ones who receive of that grace?

2 John 9---King James Version
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


"Your FAITH HAS SAVED you, go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

See anything here about doing temple works, covenants, and ordinances being necessay to have eternal life in heaven?
Yes.

Do you see anything about faith here?

1 Peter 3:21---King James Version
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Again--I do.

What I don't see is how one connects that to faith alone theology.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
"For God so loved the word, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

Are these the ones who believe on Him?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Bonnie asks you about John 3:16, and you run away to John 5.

Why are you RUNNING AWAY from Scripture?
And why are you "pitting Scripture against Scripture"?

Bonnie said:
Bonnie said:
"For it is by grace you are saved, through faith--and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God--and not by works, so no one may boast."

Are these the ones who receive of that grace?

2 John 9---King James Version
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Bonnie asks you about Eph. 2:8-9, and you run away to 2 John 9.

Why are you RUNNING AWAY from Scripture?
And why are you "pitting Scripture against Scripture"?


Bonnie said:
"Your FAITH HAS SAVED you, go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

Do you see anything about faith here?

1 Peter 3:21---King James Version
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Bonnie asks you about Luke 7:50, and you run away to 1 Pet. 3.

Why are you RUNNING AWAY from Scripture?
And why are you "pitting Scripture against Scripture"?

What I don't see is how one connects that to faith alone theology.

This is the MORMONISM forum.

Why are oyu RUNNING AWAY from discussing Mormonism, and trying to attack "faith alone" theology instead?


Face it... Mormonism is bankrupt, and everyone (including Mormons) knows it.
That's why they can never defend it.
That's why all they can do is try to attack the beliefs of whoever criticizes Mormonism.
 
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