Not Opposite of Himself

Binyawmene

Active member
I have been working on a thought and wanted to place it under the test of CARMers.

What is the ontological opposite of God? Online 'Antonyms Dictionaries' such as WordHippo.com will define God as being the opposite of Man.

Noun▲
Opposite of a deity or supreme being
mortal, human, person, earthling, individual, man, woman, baby,
child, biped, girl, guy, homo sapien, human being

I'm sure you know where I am going with this, "Jesus Christ is both God and Man". The dictionary definition above is not true, especially in monotheistic Christianity. The Trinity teaches that the one God is, was, and always will be one God. There is no ontological identical and opposite of himself or some other god being identical and opposite of himself. The God of the Bible is God alone and in a category of himself. There is no other of his kind and class, God is one. He cannot have any known or unknown ontological directional opposites and absences of himself. And there is no others before and after, above and below, backwards and forward, beside and inbetween, etc. Also the Hypostatic Union teaches that Jesus Christ is both God and man, but "God" and "man" are not directional opposites, they are in two different categories, and cannot be ontologically equivalent. The same applies to angels, the devil is not the opposite of God, as often depicted of good versus evil in context of opposite words. Angles are different categories, regardless if you can draw out opposites based on their attributes, its a categorical difference and not the same sense. God has no opposites of himself. Or any other known and unknown created thing. There is simply no identical and opposites of himself.

For example, Jesus Christ is a man entails that he is not a woman. The opposite of man is a woman from its ontological category or its kind and class of human beings. It would be a category mistake to assume that human properties being found in the category of a potent man, and then place it into the category of omnipotent God. As if God is both potent and omnipotent, ~(P ^ O). Both "God" and "Man" may have similarities and differences, but they will never be each other’s ontological directional opposites, and they will never collide or overlap into each other categories.

[Category of God

Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient​

Category of Man

powerless
Localized
Ignorant​

Category Mistake

God is both omnipotent and powerless.
or,
Man is both powerless and omnipotent.

God is both omnipresent and localized.
or,
Man is both localized and omnipresent.

God is both omniscient and ignorant.
or,
Man is both ignorant and omniscient.​

Parallelism Expression of Oppositions: There is an exegetical structure pattern found in Scriptures of where Jesus Christ display Divine attributes as God and Human attributes as Man. For example, this is evident from the fact that Jesus Christ has divine intelligence being omniscient as God and his human intelligence that increased as man. You can also say, "Jesus Christ is"... "both omniscient and ignorant," "both omnipresent and localized," and "both omnipotent and powerless." The list goes on and on, etc. Even any Theological book under Christology can draw out those distinctions. But from a hermeneutical approach and from a logical standpoint, a conjunction is most effective and better approach Scripturally. Because the meaning of a certain phraseology is 'drawn out' from the whole of Scriptures exegetically. If we know "this" and we know "that" about Jesus Christ, then Scriptures as a whole don't contradict but harmonizes.

1. Since Jesus Christ is both God and Man, then there exist a incompatibility binary relationship of having opposite properties. Because both God and Man are in different categories and not the same category. The binary relationship in the Hypostatic Union framework are often viewed in antonyms or opposite pair of words, which is a word that has the opposite meaning of another word. But not in the same sense because there are two different natures having their own respective properties and the Person is just a subject of predication. Whatever attribute the subject does according to the Divine Nature means he cannot do the opposite as being God alone (both omnipresent and non-omnipresent). And vice versa, whatever attribute the subject does according to the human nature means he cannot do the opposite as being Man alone (both localized and non-localized). The subject can do both at the same time, but not from the same sense based on their different categorical differences.

2. These two opposite ideas of God's "omnipresent" along with Man's "localized" are being jointed together in a logical conjunction "and" for a unique and contrasting framework. The doctrine define these logical conjunctions to be parallel expression of oppositions, which is a antithesis, from anti 'against' + tithenai "to place" or in other words, "a setting opposite or contrasting of ideas is expressed by parallelism of words that are the opposites of," and those ideas might not always be structurally opposites in the doctrine, for example, "both equal and subordinate" are opposites, and "both omnipotent and ignorant" are not opposites. But both structures are logically valid within the framework, so its not always framed in oppositions to each other. This framework is to compare their indifferences and to emphasize the union.

Any thoughts, opinions, and challenges?
 
The opposite of God is NOT God from a technical sense.

Other meanings of opposites are just stylistic, like Joker is the opposite of Batman or something.

In that sense, Satan would probably be the closest thing.
 
I'm sure you know where I am going with this, "Jesus Christ is both God and Man".

You are describing a uniquely TRINITARIAN problem.

Only TRINITARIANS believe Jesus is God AND Man.

Whereas the Bible says Jesus is God manifest in the flesh AS a Man.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
You are describing a uniquely TRINITARIAN problem.

Only TRINITARIANS believe Jesus is God AND Man.

Whereas the Bible says Jesus is God manifest in the flesh AS a Man.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

So a mode of God isn't actually God then.

This means you don't believe Jesus is really God....
 
So a mode of God isn't actually God then.

This means you don't believe Jesus is really God....

I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a MORPHE of God. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans IS really God.

It is TRINITARIANS who believe God CREATED the spirit and soul of Jesus. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans is NOT really God.
 
You are describing a uniquely TRINITARIAN problem.

Only TRINITARIANS believe Jesus is God AND Man.

Whereas the Bible says Jesus is God manifest in the flesh AS a Man.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus is God AND Man.
Jesus is God manifest AS a Man.
I fail to see the distinction or difference.
 
I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a MORPHE of God. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans IS really God.

It is TRINITARIANS who believe God CREATED the spirit and soul of Jesus. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans is NOT really God.
The spirit/soul of ALL men is formed in their bodies by God AFTER conception.
 
I have been working on a thought and wanted to place it under the test of CARMers.

What is the ontological opposite of God? Online 'Antonyms Dictionaries' such as WordHippo.com will define God as being the opposite of Man.

Noun▲
Opposite of a deity or supreme being
mortal, human, person, earthling, individual, man, woman, baby,
child, biped, girl, guy, homo sapien, human being

I'm sure you know where I am going with this, "Jesus Christ is both God and Man". The dictionary definition above is not true, especially in monotheistic Christianity. The Trinity teaches that the one God is, was, and always will be one God. There is no ontological identical and opposite of himself or some other god being identical and opposite of himself. The God of the Bible is God alone and in a category of himself. There is no other of his kind and class, God is one. He cannot have any known or unknown ontological directional opposites and absences of himself. And there is no others before and after, above and below, backwards and forward, beside and inbetween, etc. Also the Hypostatic Union teaches that Jesus Christ is both God and man, but "God" and "man" are not directional opposites, they are in two different categories, and cannot be ontologically equivalent. The same applies to angels, the devil is not the opposite of God, as often depicted of good versus evil in context of opposite words. Angles are different categories, regardless if you can draw out opposites based on their attributes, its a categorical difference and not the same sense. God has no opposites of himself. Or any other known and unknown created thing. There is simply no identical and opposites of himself.

(Speaking as a non-trinitarian, but not addressing your argument as of yet)

You are using the word "God" in two ways (as a quality and as an identity) but are not being clear as to which definition you mean when using the word.

Take for example the phrase: "The God of the Bible is God alone". You've used "God" twice, but the two words, though capitalized as proper nouns mean two different things, and if you force them to mean the same thing, then the sentence is a mindless tautology. Do you mean: "The god of the Bible is God alone".

Another example is the phrase "Jesus Christ is both God and man" The word "God" with the capital "G" is a proper noun identifying a specific object, and the word "man" is identifying his nature(?). Perhaps the words "divine" and "human". The phrase as you have used it is not precise, and you really need the precision to explain the argument you are making.

For example, Jesus Christ is a man entails that he is not a woman. The opposite of man is a woman from its ontological category or its kind and class of human beings. It would be a category mistake to assume that human properties being found in the category of a potent man, and then place it into the category of omnipotent God. As if God is both potent and omnipotent, ~(P ^ O). Both "God" and "Man" may have similarities and differences, but they will never be each other’s ontological directional opposites, and they will never collide or overlap into each other categories.

[Category of God

Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient​

Category of Man

powerless
Localized
Ignorant​

Category Mistake

God is both omnipotent and powerless.
or,
Man is both powerless and omnipotent.

God is both omnipresent and localized.
or,
Man is both localized and omnipresent.

God is both omniscient and ignorant.
or,
Man is both ignorant and omniscient.​

Just cleaning up the language here, if you are going to differentiate sexes perhaps "male" and "female" rather than the word "man" as "man" is previously being used for other purposes. And you also use "Man" as a category and "God" as a category. This could be fine, but is Jesus Christ both "God and Man" or is Jesus Christ both "God and man" in your thesis.


Parallelism Expression of Oppositions: There is an exegetical structure pattern found in Scriptures of where Jesus Christ display Divine attributes as God and Human attributes as Man. For example, this is evident from the fact that Jesus Christ has divine intelligence being omniscient as God and his human intelligence that increased as man. You can also say, "Jesus Christ is"... "both omniscient and ignorant," "both omnipresent and localized," and "both omnipotent and powerless." The list goes on and on, etc. Even any Theological book under Christology can draw out those distinctions. But from a hermeneutical approach and from a logical standpoint, a conjunction is most effective and better approach Scripturally. Because the meaning of a certain phraseology is 'drawn out' from the whole of Scriptures exegetically. If we know "this" and we know "that" about Jesus Christ, then Scriptures as a whole don't contradict but harmonizes.

1. Since Jesus Christ is both God and Man, then there exist a incompatibility binary relationship of having opposite properties. Because both God and Man are in different categories and not the same category. The binary relationship in the Hypostatic Union framework are often viewed in antonyms or opposite pair of words, which is a word that has the opposite meaning of another word. But not in the same sense because there are two different natures having their own respective properties and the Person is just a subject of predication. Whatever attribute the subject does according to the Divine Nature means he cannot do the opposite as being God alone (both omnipresent and non-omnipresent). And vice versa, whatever attribute the subject does according to the human nature means he cannot do the opposite as being Man alone (both localized and non-localized). The subject can do both at the same time, but not from the same sense based on their different categorical differences.

2. These two opposite ideas of God's "omnipresent" along with Man's "localized" are being jointed together in a logical conjunction "and" for a unique and contrasting framework. The doctrine define these logical conjunctions to be parallel expression of oppositions, which is a antithesis, from anti 'against' + tithenai "to place" or in other words, "a setting opposite or contrasting of ideas is expressed by parallelism of words that are the opposites of," and those ideas might not always be structurally opposites in the doctrine, for example, "both equal and subordinate" are opposites, and "both omnipotent and ignorant" are not opposites. But both structures are logically valid within the framework, so its not always framed in oppositions to each other. This framework is to compare their indifferences and to emphasize the union.

Any thoughts, opinions, and challenges?

Challenges to come later. At the moment, the most helpful thing is get everybody on the same page of understanding when an object is in view or a quality is in view.
 
I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a MORPHE of God. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans IS really God.

It is TRINITARIANS who believe God CREATED the spirit and soul of Jesus. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans is NOT really God.
NO soul/spirit of any man is in the form of God.
 
I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a MORPHE of God. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans IS really God.

It is TRINITARIANS who believe God CREATED the spirit and soul of Jesus. In other words, the one mediator between God and humans is NOT really God.
And MAN. 1 Tim. 2:5
 
(Speaking as a non-trinitarian, but not addressing your argument as of yet)

Anyone is welcome to add their thoughts, opinions, and challenges.

This is just a snip and haven't included the whole logical argument.

You are using the word "God" in two ways (as a quality and as an identity) but are not being clear as to which definition you mean when using the word.

More than likely you are correct. I knew there was a distinction to be made but I simply went with the flow of my thought. Besides, mostly those Biblical phrase, like: God alone, there is no other, none beside me, etc. is to reveal that God is monotheistic. There is only one God and no other but him. Contrasting to some some kind of non-existing god. But I wanted to imply identity to stress idea that there is no opposites of God and that negations do not apply. For example:

Law of Non-Contradiction: "It is impossible for the same thing to belong and not to belong at the same time and in the same sense."​

Law of Identity:
G as being identical to himself G,

Same Thing To Belong
G = G positive
God is God <----- identical to himself

Law of Non-Contradiction:
~G as being opposite to himself G,

Same Thing Not To Belong
G ~G negative
God, non-God <----- opposite of himself

Take for example the phrase: "The God of the Bible is God alone". You've used "God" twice, but the two words, though capitalized as proper nouns mean two different things, and if you force them to mean the same thing, then the sentence is a mindless tautology. Do you mean: "The god of the Bible is God alone".

No. I mean what I have phrased. The phrase I've used: "The God of the Bible is God alone" is referring to the selfsame God and identifying who he is. Regardless if the phrase is structured in a tautological sense. The God of the Bible" implies what the Bible says about him and I given one description about him which is "God alone". Also, in logic, a tautology is certainly not mindless, like G = G is a tautology and the negation G, ~G is also a tautology. This is everyday language and you probably talk tautology. The crazy thing is that you might not even be aware of it.

Another example is the phrase "Jesus Christ is both God and man" The word "God" with the capital "G" is a proper noun identifying a specific object, and the word "man" is identifying his nature(?). Perhaps the words "divine" and "human". The phrase as you have used it is not precise, and you really need the precision to explain the argument you are making.

I understand what you mean. From my standpoint, the phraseologies of "God in the flesh," "Jesus Christ is God," and "Jesus Christ is both God and Man;" which is according to the Divine Nature. So how are we to define "God" in phraseological context? Well, Christologically speaking, the framework for the term "God" has a two-fold meaning. You have, Jesus Christ, who is identified as "God," which doesn't mean he is all of the "One Trinue God" (that would be absurb to think Jesus Christ is a Triune God when he is only a member of the Trinity), but he is only "God" according to the Divine Nature distinctively from the other members of the Father and the Holy Spirit in context. So in one sense, the term "God" can be used to designate the totality of God as Trinue, and in another sense, God is in reference with the Divine Nature.

The Son-person is theanthropic or both God and Man.

a). God is derived from the Divine Nature.
b). Man is derived from the Human Nature.

So, yes, I would say that "man" would be identifying his nature. For example, Jesus Christ being Fully Man or Fully Human is derived from the human nature being composed of the whole body and soul/spirit, with all of the human attributes and properties. That is what qualify him as Man.

Just cleaning up the language here, if you are going to differentiate sexes perhaps "male" and "female" rather than the word "man" as "man" is previously being used for other purposes.

I am not sure that I am following your thought here. Maybe a little more elaboration on your part. I am not differentiating sexes, but pointing out what is the opposite of man. The context is from the phrase "Jesus Christ is both God and Man". And I've stressed the point that God has no opposites of himself (God, not-God) and of some other (God and Man). Now I am speaking about the Man. The opposite of Man is not God, but a woman.

And you also use "Man" as a category and "God" as a category. This could be fine, but is Jesus Christ both "God and Man" or is Jesus Christ both "God and man" in your thesis.

Capitalizing really makes no difference to me. I usually capitalize Man. But it might mean something to you and you are more than welcome to share your thoughts. I am always open to suggestions.

Challenges to come later. At the moment, the most helpful thing is get everybody on the same page of understanding when an object is in view or a quality is in view.

Sure. I like to know more about that too.
 
What has this to do with Jesus Christ?????????????

You said you see NO distinction or difference between "God AND Man" and "God AS Man".

So I am trying to see if you understand the difference between the words "AND" and "AS".

Can you give us your final answer to these questions...

1) Is ice... (A) water AND ice (B) water AS ice (C) no difference

2) Was the dove... (A) the Holy Spirit AND a dove (B) the Holy Spirit AS a dove (C) no difference

3) Was the man Christ Jesus... (A) God AND the man Christ Jesus (B) God AS the man Christ Jesus (C) no difference

I answer B to all three questions.
 
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