Obedience and antinomianism

No I do not think so but we will see. I think he believes one is saved by faith apart from repentance and obedience/ Lordship. A disciple comes after, not first as Jesus taught. A disciple is the beginning point in the gospels and in the great commission.
I'm interested in hearing what he says about this...

I would say that when it comes to the Law of Moses, I'm Antinomian; but I'm not Lawless when it comes to the Royal Law, aka the Law of Christ. The reason I say this is because I'm Widowed from the Law of Moses, and am free to Marry another. Though I am a Gentile, the Law of Moses was written on my Stoney heart; but the Law of Christ is written on my Heart of flesh...


Categories; and Category Mistakes...
 
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Jesus and the Apostle’s affirm to Love God with all your mind heart and soul and your neighbor as yourself are New Testament commands for believers to obey.

Are you saying they are not ?

And why would you deliberately disobey Jesus and the Apostle’s teachings and commands to Love God and others ?

hope this helps !!!
I try to follow all NT commands. But I am not obligated or under the law of Moses. I believe Christians should try to follow all NT commands, but I do not believe it proves our assures one of their salvation.

You're full of strawman today.
 
I try to follow all NT commands. But I am not obligated or under the law of Moses. I believe Christians should try to follow all NT commands, but I do not believe it proves our assures one of their salvation.

You're full of strawman today.
Is obedience to N.T. commands optional for a believer ?
 
No I do not think so but we will see. I think he believes one is saved by faith apart from repentance and obedience/ Lordship. A disciple comes after, not first as Jesus taught. A disciple is the beginning point in the gospels and in the great commission.

Its the old false dichotomy in Christianity

faith = savior. " accept Jesus "
disciple = Lord a subsequent idea that is an option to embrace or reject- ie its the sin issue/self that gets justified to reject Lordship. That is the bottom line and what is really at the root of the issue.

One happens at salvation the other is for later if it even happens at all.
You are correct. I do not believe one is saved by their faith, nor their repentance. I believe all the elect were justified by the blood of Christ(at the cross) and granted this knowledge in faith and repentance of idolatry and dead works. I believe that faith and repentance is fruit of being born again.
 
Is obedience to N.T. commands optional for a believer ?
Yes, because if it wasn't, everyone would go to hell. To rely on obedience to prove justification or salvation is putting yourself under the law. Will you quantify what obedience means to you? Is it perfect? Do you have to have this desire to obey 100% of the time or what?

Do you not understand that if obedience was mandatory that means you must obey perfectly, like Jesus did. Can you quantify this? I know that many LDS, JW and RC look much better on the outside than I do, but inside they are wolves, full of dead works.

Fruit in Matthew 7 = doctrine.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
Matthew 7:15‭-‬20 KJV

I look to Christ and His work because mine is miserable.
 
Yes, because if it wasn't, everyone would go to hell. To rely on obedience to prove justification or salvation is putting yourself under the law. Will you quantify what obedience means to you? Is it perfect? Do you have to have this desire to obey 100% of the time or what?

Do you not understand that if obedience was mandatory that means you must obey perfectly, like Jesus did. Can you quantify this? I know that many LDS, JW and RC look much better on the outside than I do, but inside they are wolves, full of dead works.

Fruit in Matthew 7 = doctrine.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
Matthew 7:15‭-‬20 KJV

I look to Christ and His work because mine is miserable.
ok thanks for your opinion and answering the question even though we completely disagree.
 
None. I'm not under not obligated to the law of Moses. I'm under the covenant of grace.

I do not believe in the "covenant of works". I actually just found out last night about this concept after researching what you had asked me. I am sorry, I was unfamiliar with this theology until now. I do not believe Adamv and Eve had free will. I believe God decreed the fall in order to bring glory to Himself through His Son redeeming a particular people.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Genesis 2:17 KJV

This does not mean "if you don't eat then you will live." This was God telling Adam that "when he eats, he will die."
So you may kill, steal, lie etc?

Let me ask you however what glory do you see in God determining the fall and causing the corruption of what he had originally created good

and what logic is there in determining that which would require redemption

Kind of like a fireman acting the arsonist so he can rush in and put out the fire and manage to save some of those he endangered
 
So you may kill, steal, lie etc?

Let me ask you however what glory do you see in God determining the fall and causing the corruption of what he had originally created good

and what logic is there in determining that which would require redemption

Kind of like a fireman acting the arsonist so he can rush in and put out the fire and manage to save some of those he endangered
Everyone kills, lies and steals every day. Do you think you don't?
 
Yes, because if it wasn't, everyone would go to hell. To rely on obedience to prove justification or salvation is putting yourself under the law. Will you quantify what obedience means to you? Is it perfect? Do you have to have this desire to obey 100% of the time or what?

Do you not understand that if obedience was mandatory that means you must obey perfectly, like Jesus did. Can you quantify this? I know that many LDS, JW and RC look much better on the outside than I do, but inside they are wolves, full of dead works.
The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. The Pharisees prided themselves in being disciples of Moses (John 9:28). Jesus’ followers were called “disciples” long before they were ever called “Christians.” Their discipleship began with Jesus’ call and required them to exercise their will to follow Him (Matthew 9:9).

Jesus was quite explicit about the cost of following Him. Discipleship requires a totally committed life: “Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33). Sacrifice is expected: “Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me’” (Matthew 16:24).

Not all of Jesus’ followers were able to make such a commitment. There were many who left Jesus after a while. “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him” (John 6:66).

Jesus used the term disciple but never Christian. The first instance of the word Christian is found in the book of Acts: “The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). Most Bible scholars agree that it is unlikely that the believers themselves thought up the name “Christians.” The early church had other names for themselves, such as “disciples” (Acts 13:52; 20:1; 21:4) and “saints” (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 16:1; Ephesians 1:1) and “brothers” (1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Peter 3:8).

The name “Christian,” meaning “belonging to Christ,” appears to have been invented by those outside of the church. It was most likely meant as a derogatory term. Only two other times does the word appear in the New Testament (Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). The idea that the term Christian was originally a pejorative finds some support in 1 Peter 4:16: “However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.”

Biblically speaking, a Christian is a disciple of Christ. A Christian is someone who has placed his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12). A Christian has been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:3). A Christian “belongs to Christ” and is daily being transformed into the likeness of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18).

A true Christian (and not one in name only) will have to be a disciple of Christ as well. That is, he has counted the cost and has totally committed his life to following Jesus. He accepts the call to sacrifice and follows wherever the Lord leads. The Christian disciple completely adheres to the teaching of Jesus, makes Christ his number-one priority, and lives accordingly. He is actively involved in making other Christian disciples (Matthew 28:19–20).

A true Christian disciple is a believer in Christ and possesses new life through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Because he loves Christ, a Christian will also be an obedient disciple (John 14:15). Paul describes the reality of being a Christian disciple: “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).got?

hope this helps !!!
 
Yes, because if it wasn't, everyone would go to hell. To rely on obedience to prove justification or salvation is putting yourself under the law. Will you quantify what obedience means to you? Is it perfect? Do you have to have this desire to obey 100% of the time or what?

Do you not understand that if obedience was mandatory that means you must obey perfectly, like Jesus did. Can you quantify this? I know that many LDS, JW and RC look much better on the outside than I do, but inside they are wolves, full of dead works.

Fruit in Matthew 7 = doctrine.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
Matthew 7:15‭-‬20 KJV

I look to Christ and His work because mine is miserable.

Acts 5:32 (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.




Hebrews 5:9 (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. The Pharisees prided themselves in being disciples of Moses (John 9:28). Jesus’ followers were called “disciples” long before they were ever called “Christians.” Their discipleship began with Jesus’ call and required them to exercise their will to follow Him (Matthew 9:9).

Jesus was quite explicit about the cost of following Him. Discipleship requires a totally committed life: “Any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33). Sacrifice is expected: “Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me’” (Matthew 16:24).

Not all of Jesus’ followers were able to make such a commitment. There were many who left Jesus after a while. “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him” (John 6:66).

Jesus used the term disciple but never Christian. The first instance of the word Christian is found in the book of Acts: “The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). Most Bible scholars agree that it is unlikely that the believers themselves thought up the name “Christians.” The early church had other names for themselves, such as “disciples” (Acts 13:52; 20:1; 21:4) and “saints” (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 16:1; Ephesians 1:1) and “brothers” (1 Corinthians 1:9; 1 Peter 3:8).

The name “Christian,” meaning “belonging to Christ,” appears to have been invented by those outside of the church. It was most likely meant as a derogatory term. Only two other times does the word appear in the New Testament (Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). The idea that the term Christian was originally a pejorative finds some support in 1 Peter 4:16: “However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.”

Biblically speaking, a Christian is a disciple of Christ. A Christian is someone who has placed his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12). A Christian has been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:3). A Christian “belongs to Christ” and is daily being transformed into the likeness of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18).

A true Christian (and not one in name only) will have to be a disciple of Christ as well. That is, he has counted the cost and has totally committed his life to following Jesus. He accepts the call to sacrifice and follows wherever the Lord leads. The Christian disciple completely adheres to the teaching of Jesus, makes Christ his number-one priority, and lives accordingly. He is actively involved in making other Christian disciples (Matthew 28:19–20).

A true Christian disciple is a believer in Christ and possesses new life through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Because he loves Christ, a Christian will also be an obedient disciple (John 14:15). Paul describes the reality of being a Christian disciple: “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).got?

hope this helps !!!
This is just gish gallop. If you would like to discuss a certain passage, I'm more than willing, but I do not engage with gish gallop, sorry. These are just proof texts to prove "Lordship salvation". One must determine the context in each passage, which this did not do.

The area about John 6 is especially concerning. The people did not leave because they didn't want to obey, that is a ridiculous interpretation.
 
RC Sproul on fire !
He Is!

Developing Christian Character by doing what Paul says we are to train or discipline ourselves to be godly (1 Timothy 4:7).

Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 1 TIMOTHY 4:7

Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary lists as one definition of discipline, “training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character.” This is what we must do if we pursue holiness: We must correct, mold, and train our moral character. Put in some work and time. That seems counter to our emphasis on freedom in Christ and often smacks of legalism and works salvation but it's not.

Discipline toward holiness begins with the Word of God. Paul said, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

Training or discipline in doing righteousness. This is what the Scriptures will do for us if we use them. Jay Adams said, “It is by willing, prayerful and persistent obedience to the requirements of the Scriptures that godly patterns are developed and come to be a part of us.”
 
This is just gish gallop. If you would like to discuss a certain passage, I'm more than willing, but I do not engage with gish gallop, sorry. These are just proof texts to prove "Lordship salvation". One must determine the context in each passage, which this did not do.

The area about John 6 is especially concerning. The people did not leave because they didn't want to obey, that is a ridiculous interpretation.
Its bible truth 101, Christianity 101, conversion 101, Jesus teaching 101, Apostles teaching 101.

They left because they counted the cost of following and could not give Jesus the 100% commitment Jesus requires.
 
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