Obedience Required or Not Required?

zerinus

Well-known member
What do the scriptures say? These quotes all come from the New Testament. I will give quotes from Old Testament later. I am sure this is not a complete list, but this is all that I could think of at the moment. I have had to split this post up into two, because the software does not allow for posts longer than 1000 characters to be entered. So this is Part One:

Matthew 4:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 19:

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 25:

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mark 6:

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 1:

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 5:

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke 8:

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Luke 11:

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Luke 12:

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

John 8:

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
• • •
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 13:

17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
• • •
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
• • •
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
 
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zerinus

Well-known member
Part Two:

Acts 2:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 5:

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Romans 1:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 2:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Romans 7:

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 10:

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

1 Corinthians 7:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

2 Corinthians 5:

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Ephesians 2:

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Colossians 3:

22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

2 Thessalonians 1:

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 13:

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

James 1:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 1:

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1 Peter 4:

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 John 2:

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
• • •
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
• • •
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 3:

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
• • •
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:

6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Titus 3:

1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Revelation 3:

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about doing. It is all about obeying. It is all about repenting. And it is all about keeping God's commandments. Calvinism turns it on its head! It is all about not doing, not obeying, not repenting, and not keeping God's commandments. It is the antithesis of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the opposing expression of it. It is the gospel of damnation rather than salvation.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
What do the scriptures say?

Apparently not what you think they do.

It is undeniable that Jesus preached the law, but the question is WHY He preached it.
And the Scriptures answer that question (even though you keep IGNORING it):

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Jesus kept pointing people to the law, not so that they would be SAVED by the Law, but because the law convicted them of SIN, and pointed them to Christ (Gal. 3:24-25).


These quotes all come from the New Testament. I will give quotes from Old Testament later.

This is a typical Mormon tactic. Instead of studying Scripture to determine truth, you BEGIN with a doctrine (that your Mormon "prophets" told you to believe), and then you look for "proof-texts" to try to SUPPORT those doctrines.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

This doesn't say that "works are required".
The question must be asked, are we saved because we do God's will, or do we do God's will BECAUSE we are (already) saved?

Matthew 19:

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And again, I refer you back to Rom. 3:19-20.



Matthew 25:

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Where does this say that "you must do works or you are not saved"?



Mark 6:

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Does it say "must", or "should"?

Luke 1:

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Where does it say, "required"?

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Where does it say "required for salvation"?
You seem to confuse "correlation" with "causation".


Luke 8:

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Where does it say "required for salvation"?


Luke 11:

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

This says those who keep the word of God are "blessed".
Where does it say, "required for salvation"?


Luke 12:

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Where does it say, "required for salvation"?


Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Amen!
Where does it say, "required for salvation"?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Previously I gave all the quotes on obedience I had collected from the New Testament. Here are more from the Old Testament. Again I will have to split it up into two or three posts. This now becomes Part Three:

Genesis 26:

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 19:

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Exodus 23:

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

Leviticus 26:

3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
13 I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.

Deuteronomy 4:

39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 6:

2 That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
• • •
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
• • •
18 And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the Lord: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers.

Deuteronomy 11:

26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about doing. It is all about obeying. It is all about repenting.

Yep it is. Disobedience is required to be saved on that Day when Jesus comes in glory.

But as you can see from the responses, some are STONE DEAF to the things Jesus taught. And that is because they don't care what he taught. They care more about their creeds and lie to themselves that this is what he taught even though he unambiguously taught otherwise. It is bizarre to watch this behavior but they keep right on doing it.

And it is all about keeping God's commandments. Calvinism turns it on its head! It is all about not doing, not obeying, not repenting, and not keeping God's commandments. It is the antithesis of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the opposing expression of it. It is the gospel of damnation rather than salvation.

Nope it's not about keeping commandments of the Law. Sorry, try again. It is about being conformed to the image of Christ in all that we do.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Yep it is. Disobedience is required to be saved on that Day when Jesus comes in glory.

But as you can see from the responses, some are STONE DEAF to the things Jesus taught. And that is because they don't care what he taught. They care more about their creeds and lie to themselves that this is what he taught even though he unambiguously taught otherwise. It is bizarre to watch this behavior but they keep right on doing it.


Nope it's not about keeping commandments of the Law. Sorry, try again. It is about being conformed to the image of Christ in all that we do.
Thanks for the reply. I started this thread because in my discussions with some of our Calvinist friends here they had categorically stated that obedience is not a gospel requirement. So I promised when I get some time I would start a thread listing all the scripture references to obedience to prove my point. But as you have rightly observed, they have shown no interest in it whatsoever—or maybe they have, but they know that they have no answer to give to it, so they prefer to keep quiet about it rather than admit that their theology is wrong!
 
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Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply. I started this thread because in my discussions with some of our Calvinist friends here they had categorically stated that obedience is not a gospel requirement. So I promised when I get some time I would start a thread listing all the scripture references to obedience to prove my point. But as you have rightly observed, they have shown no interest in it whatsoever—or maybe they have, but they know what they have no answer to give to it, so they prefer to keep quiet about it rather than admit that their theology is wrong!

Some people resort to denial of the facts when they don't like the facts. You can't do much for these people. They insist on condemning themselves and so God hands them over to their desire.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Christ obedience made many righteous Rom 5 19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

That is the only required obedience to justify a person before God!
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Christ obedience made many righteous Rom 5 19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

That is the only required obedience to justify a person before God!
Typical Calvinistic reply! Stick to one or two verses of the Bible (from a very controversial author), and turn a blind eye to 99% of the rest of the Bible which teach something different. I will tell you what is the most important verse in the Bible that you overlooked, it is this one:

2 Peter 3:

16 As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Calvinism is built almost entirely on a misreading of Paul. If there had been no Paul, there would have been no Calvinism. Go figure.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Typical Calvinistic reply! Stick to one or two verses of the Bible (from a very controversial author), and turn a blind eye to 99% of the rest of the Bible which teach something different. I will tell you what is the most important verse in the Bible that you overlooked, it is this one:

2 Peter 3:

16 As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Calvinism is built almost entirely on a misreading of Paul. If there had been no Paul, there would have been no Calvinism. Go figure.
That one verse overthrows your theories. How are the many Justified, made righteous according to Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
zerinus
The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about doing. It is all about obeying. It is all about repenting.
Thats false, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about His doing, His Obeying even to the Cross, to save His People from their sins. You make the Gospel all about what man does, thats backwards and misleading, and detracts from Christ !
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Part Four:

Deuteronomy 28:

1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.
3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
7 The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
8 The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
9 The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11 And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12 The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13 And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Joshua 22:

5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Psalm 103:

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Psalm 112:

1 Praise ye the Lord. Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.

Psalm 119:

59 I thought on my ways, and turned my feet unto thy testimonies.
60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments.

1 Samuel 15:

22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Ezra 7:

10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Ecclesiastes 12:

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Isaiah 1:

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Jeremiah 7:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
 

civic

Well-known member
What do the scriptures say? These quotes all come from the New Testament. I will give quotes from Old Testament later. I am sure this is not a complete list, but this is all that I could think of at the moment. I have had to split this post up into two, because the software does not allow for posts longer than 1000 characters to be entered. So this is Part One:

Matthew 4:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 19:

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 25:

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mark 6:

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 1:

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 5:

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 6:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke 8:

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Luke 11:

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Luke 12:

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

John 8:

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
• • •
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 13:

17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

John 14:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
• • •
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
• • •
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
the short answer is no !

works are a result of salvation not a means to salvation as per Ephesians 2:8-10. Its the proof, evidence, fruit of salvation, the by product of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,

hope this helps !!!

but somehow I doubt that this TRUTH will help you.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
That one verse overthrows your theories. How are the many Justified, made righteous according to Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
zerinus

Thats false, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about His doing, His Obeying even to the Cross, to save His People from their sins. You make the Gospel all about what man does, thats backwards and misleading, and detracts from Christ !
Your scriptures against mine! Who is to say that your scriptures are better than mine? Why not the other way? I have a lot more of them than you do! :giggle:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Very wise! When you have no legitimate answers to give, keeping quiet is the best course of action to take! :D
Many were made righteous by the Obedience of One Rom 5 19

9 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 

civic

Well-known member
You need to work on your reading skills. Perhaps if you go and read 2 Corinthians 5:21 it might help you.
likewise in Ephesians 2:8-10.

no requirement but faith through grace apart from works. and the result of genuine faith as a by product of salvation is good works. its the result of salvation not the means to salvation.

hope this helps !!!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
According to Rom 5 19 how are the many made righteous ? Lets see your reading skills

By means of the obedience of the one man Jesus Christ we can become the righteousness of God in him (2 Cor 5:21). Without Jesus' death and resurrection, you would have no door to the righteousness of God. The door has been opened and those who DO what is righteous ARE righteous just as He is righteous, those who do the works of God rather than their own.
 
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