Obedience

Are Roman Catholics instructed to be 'obedient' to the teachings of the Church of Roman Catholicism?
That was the relative I just spoke to who I spoke of a couple weeks ago.

When I said I was studying scripture he said "The church teaches that you are not to interpret scripture".

So it's what used to be called "sagecraft". Otherwise known as "eisegesis". Reading is just an exercise to confirm your own preconceived ideas.
 
Yes but don't forget the leaders can change what has been taught for centuries.

It is like the Marxists I talk to today that insist really real communism has never actually been tried before.

When your sect leaders delude you into thinking that what you read in the record was not the purest expression....but trust them for the purest expression...you have to be an extra level of dumb to fall for it.
 
We are the church He founded, so I guess we listen to ourselves? Nowhere in scripture are we instructed to listen 'to a church'. We ARE the church.
"For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20)
 
"For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20)
This is speaking about individual people.... the flock....believers are the flock.

Paul is speaking to the elders of the church, not to 'the church'.

You said we are to obey 'the church'......how do we go about obeying ourselves since WE ARE the church?
 
This is speaking about individual people.... the flock....believers are the flock.

Paul is speaking to the elders of the church, not to 'the church'.

You said we are to obey 'the church'......how do we go about obeying ourselves since WE ARE the church?
I have to laugh, because the next couple of verses has Paul continuing...

Grievous wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock, and there shall arise from yourselves men speaking perverse things and drawing disciples away unto themselves. Watch and remember that I have been warning you every day and night.

"Oh. But our church is the only true church because Jesus said he would protect us."

Yet Paul didn't say, "Yeah, I know there are wolves, but don't sweat it. You got this!"

No. He said something more like, "Don't get too proud. Your enemies will come from within."
 
This is speaking about individual people.... the flock....believers are the flock.

Paul is speaking to the elders of the church, not to 'the church'.

You said we are to obey 'the church'......how do we go about obeying ourselves since WE ARE the church?
It was about leaders in the church whom the faithful are to listen too.
 
There we go. Kicking Martin Luther. It's like a 16th century version of TDS. Get on twitter, people foaming at the mouth to bring Trump into everything, even where the context doesn't fit, just because it makes them feel good.

And I notice with catholics they foam at the mouth to bring Luther in, even when it doesn't fit. All that does it demonstrate the rabid need to instinctively defend, to the point that you deny that the church needed any reforming whatsoever.

I could really care less about Luther. I was questioning things when I was 16, long before I knew who Luther was. Took another 14 years to come out of catholicism, and I didn't do it because I was convinced by Luther. In fact, there is one thing that he said in particular that causes me pause, but it wasn't related to 95 theses or the reformation. It was a character issue. That doesn't mean he is to be summarily dismissed. Not any more than you will summarily dismiss any of the popes with character issues throughout the ages.

Pulling Luther into it only betrays your resentment and fervent hatred of the man because he broke up your club. It doesn't support the idea that you are a serious apologist whatsoever.
 
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It was about leaders in the church whom the faithful are to listen too.
We are to remember those who guided us, lead us (Hegeomai) with the Word of God, who did not promote strange doctrine's, who can establish a heart with grace. and lead us to Jesus Christ. We are to follow their faith. (Heb. 13: 7-9).
This is not the RCC... who demote the Word of God, who promote strange doctrines, and do not promote grace of the heart, but promote grace and salvation found only through an organization.
 
I have to laugh, because the next couple of verses has Paul continuing...

Grievous wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock, and there shall arise from yourselves men speaking perverse things and drawing disciples away unto themselves. Watch and remember that I have been warning you every day and night.

"Oh. But our church is the only true church because Jesus said he would protect us."

Yet Paul didn't say, "Yeah, I know there are wolves, but don't sweat it. You got this!"

No. He said something more like, "Don't get too proud. Your enemies will come from within."
They don't see those verses, their eyes go blind at that point.
 
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