Obeying the doctrine

TomFL

Well-known member
That's all it could be. Christ didn't die for or come to save any others.
John did not stutter

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
John did not stutter

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
Those verses about the Sheep
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those verses about the Sheep
Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
All those verses are about the Sheep if they are about being justified or saved
 

TomFL

Well-known member
All those verses are about the Sheep if they are about being justified or saved
You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
Christ came to save His Sheep
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Christ came to save His Sheep
To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
He came to Save the world of His own Sheep
 

TomFL

Well-known member
He came to Save the world of His own Sheep
Still ignoring the evidence from the word of God

Your theology is not a substitute

To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Still ignoring the evidence from the word of God

Your theology is not a substitute

To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

pecial pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation
The word of God interpret itself. Who did Christ specifically state He died for here Jn 10:11,15 ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The word of God interpret itself. Who did Christ specifically state He died for here Jn 10:11,15 ?
Yes it does

So why do you ignore it

To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation

When you find the word only un the passages you quote then you will have an argument

Christ died for Paul does not mean he died for Paul only

Gal. 2:20 —KJV
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Not
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes it does

So why do you ignore it

To save the world

You are ignoring the evidence and regurgitating your theology

Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation

When you find the word only un the passages you quote then you will have an argument

Christ died for Paul does not mean he died for Paul only

Gal. 2:20 —KJV
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Not
So who did Christ specifically state that He died for ? Jn 10:11,15
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So who did Christ specifically state that He died for ? Jn 10:11,15

And in

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

.....................................................


Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation

When you find the word only un the passages you quote then you will have an argument

Christ died for Paul does not mean he died for Paul only

Gal. 2:20 —KJV
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
And in

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

.....................................................


Special pleading

The way to determine the meaning of world in critical texts is to determine the meaning of world in not critical texts

Doing that shows world includes all that are opposed to God - in other words not sheep

ex

John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”

John 17:14 —ESV
“I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.”

One can look for parallel expressions

In place of world we see expressions such as , all, all men, every man

Rom. 5:18 —ESV
“¶ Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.”

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Timothy 4:10 (KJV 1900)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”


Otherwise you are just special pleading and theology is driving your interpretation

When you find the word only un the passages you quote then you will have an argument

Christ died for Paul does not mean he died for Paul only

Gal. 2:20 —KJV
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
He specifically said he died for the Sheep. So all verses regarding who Christ died for is interpreted by Jesus specific statement. Jn 10:15
 

TomFL

Well-known member
He specifically said he died for the Sheep. So all verses regarding who Christ died for is interpreted by Jesus specific statement. Jn 10:15
He specifically stated

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”

Heb 2:9 would encompass John 10:15 and exceed it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
He specifically stated

Heb. 2:9 —ESV
“But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”

Heb 2:9 would encompass John 10:15 and exceed it
Heb 2:9 all the Sheep, everyone of them He tasted death for Jn 10. To go beyond the Sheep is your speculation !
 
Because Jesus is God and as God has all Authority over His Creation as the Creator. Both the Father/Son are God.

Do you agree ?

And once again you seem to have taken a verse and removed it from the context

2 John 1:7-10
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Do you believe Jesus is God in the flesh right now ? yes or no
Sorry Civic but the name and title Jesus Christ cannot be defined as "God", and so the text doesn't say that one must acknowledge that God has come in the flesh like you are insisting but instead they must acknowledge that the anointed (Christ) named Jesus has come in the flesh instead.

Now then, what exactly does the Bible define flesh to be. For it certainly isn't both God and a human being as one single entity and that is a fact, so what does the Bible tell us about flesh and then what does the Bible tells us about God in contrast to what is flesh?


Here is one passage below civic.

Romans 1:20-23​

New Revised Standard Version​

20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

21 for though they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools;

23 and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.


Notice especially the contrast in the above between flesh and God.

For flesh is mortal and can die but God is immortal and cannot die, therefore there is no way that 1 John 4:1-4 can be telling us that we must confess that God himself has come in the flesh, for flesh can die but God cannot die and Paul wrote this after Jesus had also already come in the flesh also.

You need to quit attempting to interpret the NT scriptures by the uninspired philosophical writings of the "ECF's, for that is the same as what the Mormons do with their uninspired book of Mormons also, and neither the "ECF's" or the Book of Mormons is the word of God.

Therefore, one has to confess Jesus to have come in the flesh as the Bible alone interprets what flesh is and not what the human reasoning of man would add to it and flesh cannot be both God and a human being together for any such would then be considered of the spirit of antichrist.

Why? Because what John is saying here is that Jesus had to come in the exact nature of flesh that Adam was in before he sinned in order to be the Christ (anointed) that would die for the sins of men.

Anything more or less than this, would be antichrist because any such sacrifice for sin wouldn't count with God in his righteousness to remove man's sins then and therefore would be antichrist and not the true Christ .
 
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Beloved Daughter

Active member
Sorry Civic but the name and title Jesus Christ cannot be defined as "God", and so the text doesn't say that one must acknowledge that God has come in the flesh like you are insisting but instead they must acknowledge that the anointed (Christ) named Jesus has come in the flesh instead.

Now then, what exactly does the Bible define flesh to be. For it certainly isn't both God and a human being as one single entity and that is a fact, so what does the Bible tell us about flesh and then what does the Bible tells us about God in contrast to what is flesh?


Here is one passage below civic.

Romans 1:20-23​

New Revised Standard Version​

20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

21 for though they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools;

23 and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.


Notice especially the contrast in the above between flesh and God.

For flesh is mortal and can die but God is immortal and cannot die, therefore there is no way that 1 John 4:1-4 can be telling us that we must confess that God himself has come in the flesh, for flesh can die but God cannot die and Paul wrote this after Jesus had also already come in the flesh also.

You need to quit attempting to interpret the NT scriptures by the uninspired philosophical writings of the "ECF's, for that is the same as what the Mormons do with their uninspired book of Mormons also, and neither the "ECF's" or the Book of Mormons is the word of God.

Therefore, one has to confess Jesus to have come in the flesh as the Bible alone interprets what flesh is and not what the human reasoning of man would add to it and flesh cannot be both God and a human being together for any such would then be considered of the spirit of antichrist.

Why? Because what John is saying here is that Jesus had to come in the exact nature of flesh that Adam was in before he sinned in order to be the Christ (anointed) that would die for the sins of men.

Anything more or less than this, would be antichrist because any such sacrifice for sin wouldn't count with God in his righteousness to remove man's sins then and therefore would be antichrist and not the true Christ .
Once again, scripture ripped out its context.

Legalism to the max.
 
Once again, scripture ripped out its context.

Legalism to the max.
Legalism? LOL! Where do you get legalism out of any thing I said to civic?

Sorry but there is no legalism in obeying and abiding in the truth of God's word, "For the law came by Moses but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ".

Notice, not grace alone but instead grace and truth, for I can assure you that if you are looking to be saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ and refuse to believe the truth of God's words that he himself spoke, then the grace you are trusting to save you, will be in vain.


Here is what Jesus himself said and these are the clearest words that he ever spoke and were recorded in the NT about who we must know as The Only True God and who we must know as the Messiah who was sent by him, in order to have eternal life and be saved.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".



So then, was your reply here supposed to be your best shot at a rebuttal, or was it instead just more empty words covering up the fact that you really have no rebuttal?


What John is truly revealing for us in 1 John 4:1-4, is that in God's righteous requirements, Jesus had to be of the same exact ontology (flesh as the Bible reveals what flesh is) and the same sinless state of being that Adam was created in by God before he sinned in order to pay for man's sins by his own life.


Anything more or less would be antichrist, meaning a replacement or substitute for the genuine that cannot be the Christ nor take away the sins of men, not being what Adam truly was both in his ontology and also in his sinless state of being when God created him.
 
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