Obeying the doctrine

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Legalism? LOL! Where do you get legalism out of any thing I said to civic?

Sorry but there is no legalism in obeying and abiding in the truth of God's word, "For the law came by Moses but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ".

Notice, not grace alone but instead grace and truth, for I can assure you that if you are looking to be saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ and refuse to believe the truth of God's words that he himself spoke, then the grace you are trusting to save you, will be in vain.


Here is what Jesus himself said and these are the clearest words that he ever spoke and were recorded in the NT about who we must know as The Only True God and who we must know as the Messiah who was sent by him, in order to have eternal life and be saved.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".



So then, was your reply here supposed to be your best shot at a rebuttal, or was it instead just more empty words covering up the fact that you really have no rebuttal?


What John is truly revealing for us in 1 John 4:1-4, is that in God's righteous requirements, Jesus had to be of the same exact ontology (flesh as the Bible reveals what flesh is) and the same sinless state of being that Adam was created in by God before he sinned in order to pay for man's sins by his own life.


Anything more or less would be antichrist, meaning a replacement or substitute for the genuine that cannot be the Christ nor take away the sins of men, not being what Adam truly was both in his ontology and also in his sinless state of being when God created him.
This is just a rant. And not a word of it can overcome the word of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


 
This is just a rant. And not a word of it can overcome the word of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


LOL, of course those who believe in the truth are saved by grace through faith and I never said any different to that but the God and Christ you believe in better be the one taught in the Bible by the inspired writers, otherwise your faith is worthless.

By the way, I don't believe in abortion, and therefore I have no need to watch your videos, for I am a true believer in The Only True God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

Therefore, I don't need to watch videos to tell me that abortion is murder and once a person is truly saved, they won't need that either.

So then, are you getting the picture yet?



For that is why he commissioned the true church to preach the gospel to the lost of the world.

Instead of what the apostate church does, in attempting to be police over unbeliever and to legislate morality upon earth, only so they can be completely comfortable and at home here in the kingdoms of this world and in their self serving and self-righteous religious little cliques.


Now concerning what I said about grace and truth, Jesus said this in Matthew 7

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


I think the above words of Jesus clearly speak for themselves that there will be plenty of those who believe that they are going to be saved by God's grace but instead will be cast out because they do not believe and worship him in Spirit and in Truth.

But they will make the excuses "Lord, Lord, haven't we done this and that and like trying to stop abortion and legislate God's morality to the lost and such that wasn't in the will of God for them to be involved in.

Furthermore, usually those who want to legislate God's laws to the unbelievers, are really serving God a law of righteousness themselves and not the law of Moses necessarily but a law of righteousness of some sort and usually one that is acceptable to themselves and which could include picking abortion clinics and playing God in other ways also.





Jesus also said this in Matthew 7 as well

Matthew 7:13-14​

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


You see, I believe that God knows what he is doing by allowed the babies of the wicked to die in the womb, for the above verse shows very clearly that the majority of all humans who will be born will not believe the gospel and be saved.

Therefore it would be more merciful to allow them to die in the womb, than to be born and have a miserable life and become hardened in sin and then be case into the lake of fire to have a worse end than they would have had they been born and the majority would also.

I believe that this is why in the OT, God commended the people of Israel to kill them along with the men and women when they would drive out the unbelieving nations, for it was more merciful then if they grew up and were responsible for even greater sins when they did.

Remember this also, for in the first judgment of this world in Noah's day, only eight souls were saved and by the same water that killed thousands of thousands who were lost and without God and which is my point.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Active member
LOL, of course those who believe in the truth are saved by grace through faith and I never said any different to that but the God and Christ you believe in better be the one taught in the Bible by the inspired writers, otherwise your faith is worthless.

By the way, I don't believe in abortion, and therefore I have no need to watch your videos, for I am a true believer in The Only True God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

Therefore, I don't need to watch videos to tell me that abortion is murder and once a person is truly saved, they won't need that either.

So then, are you getting the picture yet?



For that is why he commissioned the true church to preach the gospel to the lost of the world.

Instead of what the apostate church does, in attempting to be police over unbeliever and to legislate morality upon earth, only so they can be completely comfortable and at home here in the kingdoms of this world and in their self serving and self-righteous religious little cliques.


Now concerning what I said about grace and truth, Jesus said this in Matthew 7

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


I think the above words of Jesus clearly speak for themselves that there will be plenty of those who believe that they are going to be saved by God's grace but instead will be cast out because they do not believe and worship him in Spirit and in Truth.

But they will make the excuses "Lord, Lord, haven't we done this and that and like trying to stop abortion and legislate God's morality to the lost and such that wasn't in the will of God for them to be involved in.

Furthermore, usually those who want to legislate God's laws to the unbelievers, are really serving God a law of righteousness themselves and not the law of Moses necessarily but a law of righteousness of some sort and usually one that is acceptable to themselves and which could include picking abortion clinics and playing God in other ways also.





Jesus also said this in Matthew 7 as well

Matthew 7:13-14​

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


You see, I believe that God knows what he is doing by allowed the babies of the wicked to die in the womb, for the above verse shows very clearly that the majority of all humans who will be born will not believe the gospel and be saved.

Therefore it would be more merciful to allow them to die in the womb, than to be born and have a miserable life and become hardened in sin and then be case into the lake of fire to have a worse end than they would have had they been born and the majority would also.

I believe that this is why in the OT, God commended the people of Israel to kill them along with the men and women when they would drive out the unbelieving nations, for it was more merciful then if they grew up and were responsible for even greater sins when they did.

Remember this also, for in the first judgment of this world in Noah's day, only eight souls were saved and by the same water that killed thousands of thousands who were lost and without God and which is my point.

I get it. You have no case so you insult posters.
 
LOL, of course those who believe in the truth are saved by grace through faith and I never said any different to that but the God and Christ you believe in better be the one taught in the Bible by the inspired writers, otherwise your faith is worthless.

By the way, I don't believe in abortion, and therefore I have no need to watch your videos, for I am a true believer in The Only True God and Jesus Christ whom he sent.

Therefore, I don't need to watch videos to tell me that abortion is murder and once a person is truly saved, they won't need that either.

So then, are you getting the picture yet?



For that is why he commissioned the true church to preach the gospel to the lost of the world.

Instead of what the apostate church does, in attempting to be police over unbeliever and to legislate morality upon earth, only so they can be completely comfortable and at home here in the kingdoms of this world and in their self serving and self-righteous religious little cliques.


Now concerning what I said about grace and truth, Jesus said this in Matthew 7

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


I think the above words of Jesus clearly speak for themselves that there will be plenty of those who believe that they are going to be saved by God's grace but instead will be cast out because they do not believe and worship him in Spirit and in Truth.

But they will make the excuses "Lord, Lord, haven't we done this and that and like trying to stop abortion and legislate God's morality to the lost and such that wasn't in the will of God for them to be involved in.

Furthermore, usually those who want to legislate God's laws to the unbelievers, are really serving God a law of righteousness themselves and not the law of Moses necessarily but a law of righteousness of some sort and usually one that is acceptable to themselves and which could include picking abortion clinics and playing God in other ways also.





Jesus also said this in Matthew 7 as well

Matthew 7:13-14​

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


You see, I believe that God knows what he is doing by allowed the babies of the wicked to die in the womb, for the above verse shows very clearly that the majority of all humans who will be born will not believe the gospel and be saved.

Therefore it would be more merciful to allow them to die in the womb, than to be born and have a miserable life and become hardened in sin and then be case into the lake of fire to have a worse end than they would have had they been born and the majority would also.

I believe that this is why in the OT, God commended the people of Israel to kill them along with the men and women when they would drive out the unbelieving nations, for it was more merciful then if they grew up and were responsible for even greater sins when they did.

Remember this also, for in the first judgment of this world in Noah's day, only eight souls were saved and by the same water that killed thousands of thousands who were lost and without God and which is my point.
I see your still damning everyone but yourself.
Your really sick, so only the children of parents that you approve of should live through child birth.

What’s next exterminate street people. What the heck their lives are ruined anyhow, besides the resources can be used somewhere better. God knows what He’s doing.
Did you know or are you that ignorant that Jesus came to save sinners and when you wrote “miserable life and become hardened in sin” that would be the testimony of Millions who came to Christ Jesus.

Margaret Sanger who helped start Planned Parenthood “advocated for the extermination of African-Americans.”
Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger was a supporter of eugenics who, some say, worked to intentionally lower the black birth rate.
Sanger’s fear of her racist views being exposed, as recorded in a 1939 letter to an ally: “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population.” Which is exactly what she set out and succeeded in doing.

Planned Parenthood is largely the reason why black babies are aborted in America three times more often than white babies, and Hispanic preborns are killed 1½ times more often than whites.

She also wrote that, “the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.”
So did The Nazi’s and God used men to stop them.
The same with this.
 
I get it. You have no case so you insult posters.
Are you then saying that the shoe fits you, for I didn't say anything to as an insult to you personally but only spoke of what the apostate churches are doing that isn't according to the truth of God's word.

Also, so you think that you have given any sound proof from the Bible for your position yourself?

For I certainly haven't seen anything from you yet that even comes close to refuting what I have shown you from the scriptures.

I am also still waiting for you to show me in the scriptures where God has given the church the commission to legislate morality to the lost and also save the babies of the lost from physical death only so they can grow up in sin and die in the second death and which is much, much worse by far than if they had died in the womb.

Unless perhaps you have some sort of guarantee that they will absolutely be saved and which you don't and neither does anyone else either.
 
I see your still damning everyone but yourself.
Your really sick, so only the children of parents that you approve of should live through child birth.

What’s next exterminate street people. What the heck their lives are ruined anyhow, besides the resources can be used somewhere better. God knows what He’s doing.
Did you know or are you that ignorant that Jesus came to save sinners and when you wrote “miserable life and become hardened in sin” that would be the testimony of Millions who came to Christ Jesus.

Margaret Sanger who helped start Planned Parenthood “advocated for the extermination of African-Americans.”
Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger was a supporter of eugenics who, some say, worked to intentionally lower the black birth rate.
Sanger’s fear of her racist views being exposed, as recorded in a 1939 letter to an ally: “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population.” Which is exactly what she set out and succeeded in doing.

Planned Parenthood is largely the reason why black babies are aborted in America three times more often than white babies, and Hispanic preborns are killed 1½ times more often than whites.

She also wrote that, “the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.”
So did The Nazi’s and God used men to stop them.
The same with this.
Isn't that how your churches feel about those dying from Covid 19, that because they are weak, therefore they get it and die and that is the tough breaks of life?

Remember, Jesus gave up his freedom and died himself in order that we could have ours, but it certainly wasn't so we could belly ache about being asked to wear a mask and complain about our freedom being taken from us and which is a bad witness for those who profess to be Pro Life.

Or does the mainstream church only consider life as that which is in the womb and after that they could care less and like it really appears today that they do also?


Those that abort their children are dead in trespasses and sins and just like the Bible says that we all are until and unless we get saved and spiritually so that we will be physically also at the resurrection and rapture of the church.


The commission given by God through Christ unto all who are truly saved, is not to try and save all of the babies of the lost from dying in the womb or to try to legislate God's morality to the lost who have no real power or desire to obey it.

Rather, the commission given to those who truly believe and believe in the Father as The Only True God and Jesus as the Christ whom he sent, is to preach the gospel to all nations and teach them the word of God when they believe and to baptize them also.


It is God's business alone who he has chosen to be born and who he hasn't chosen to be born and not yours, or mine or anyone else's either, and he is quite able to do his business also and therefore we need to stay out of it and let him do his business and get on with what business he gave us to do instead and as I have just reminded you of also.

As we are witnessing to someone about God and Jesus and they are wanting to abort their child, then we should reveal to them from the Bible that it is murder in God's eyes, but after that, we should leave the rest up to God, for he didn't send us to be the police for the lost.

He never told us to clean up the fish bowl or the sea, but only to catch fish and by doing so, the fish bowl will get cleaner and cleaner, one soul after another and after another.
 
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You preach lies or the Baptist and Elijah got it wrong along with Paul.
Repent you viper
As for your stmt “miserable life and become hardened in sin”
There are many who had that and came to Jesus! I being one.
In jail twice as a young man. A Father at 17. God heard my cry.

10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
You people like to complain that others are insulting you by their only speaking of the churches and without even mentioning you personally, but then you actually throw personal insults like calling me a viper and which I have never done with you and not even close either.

Concerning your bold in orange above, and you were born to experience that and it is because God himself wanted you to be born and made sure you were and he certainly doesn't need you are anyone else to help him making sure his elect will be born, because no matter what, they will be.

Look at your verse above, "When my Father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord (not you but the Lord) will take me up" and furthermore, this is speaking of a repentant believer who is already born and not the lost but rather someone who was predestined to come out of the womb and repent and believe the gospel message.

I can assure you of this, for if God wants a certain baby to be born, he can convict the mother or father or both, so that the baby will be and without any help from you other than possibly if he instructed you to witness to them about God and Christ, but he doesn't have to use you for this, for he can do it without you and through the parents.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Active member
Are you then saying that the shoe fits you, for I didn't say anything to as an insult to you personally but only spoke of what the apostate churches are doing that isn't according to the truth of God's word.

Also, so you think that you have given any sound proof from the Bible for your position yourself?

For I certainly haven't seen anything from you yet that even comes close to refuting what I have shown you from the scriptures.

I am also still waiting for you to show me in the scriptures where God has given the church the commission to legislate morality to the lost and also save the babies of the lost from physical death only so they can grow up in sin and die in the second death and which is much, much worse by far than if they had died in the womb.


Unless perhaps you have some sort of guarantee that they will absolutely be saved and which you don't and neither does anyone else either.

You must have missed the 6th commandment. The Law is a fool. I give you slavery. Christians have an obligation to seek justice for the murder of babies.

If you don't want to do it, fine, the rest of us will do it. Working to stop the murder of babies/children is something I and most other Christians won't run from.
 

Beloved Daughter

Active member
You people like to complain that others are insulting you by their only speaking of the churches and without even mentioning you personally, but then you actually throw personal insults like calling me a viper and which I have never done with you and not even close either.

Concerning your bold in orange above, and you were born to experience that and it is because God himself wanted you to be born and made sure you were and he certainly doesn't need you are anyone else to help him making sure his elect will be born, because no matter what, they will be.

Look at your verse above, "When my Father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord (not you but the Lord) will take me up" and furthermore, this is speaking of a repentant believer who is already born and not the lost but rather someone who was predestined to come out of the womb and repent and believe the gospel message.

I can assure you of this, for if God wants a certain baby to be born, he can convict the mother or father or both, so that the baby will be and without any help from you other than possibly if he instructed you to witness to them about God and Christ, but he doesn't have to use you for this, for he can do it without you and through the parents.

Who EXACTLY is "You people"?
 
You must have missed the 6th commandment. The Law is a fool. I give you slavery. Christians have an obligation to seek justice for the murder of babies.

If you don't want to do it, fine, the rest of us will do it. Working to stop the murder of babies/children is something I and most other Christians won't run from.
The sixth commandment is your instruction from God for yourself to obey and it is not instruction from God for you to run around trying to save the babies of the lost or to vote to legislate God's morality to unbelievers, for that is God's business and not yours.

The law of God isn't supposed to be preached from your mouth all the time but rather observed instead by the lost in how you live and by the powerful conviction of God's morality coming out unto them from your own heart and life and while instead you are preaching the gospel message.

Go and read Paul's sermon to the Gentiles on Mars Hill, for he never once told these unbelievers that they needed to keep God's moral law and that is because Paul trusted instead in the power of God's ability to convict them while he instead preached the gospel unto them and like Christ instructed all of us to.

Now, if you are a genuine believer and your sister who also professes to be a believer is attempting to get an abortion, then by all means, you must try and stop her, because she claims to be a believer and a sister in Christ and that makes you responsible for her but it doesn't for every lost soul who would do this.

For God never gave you any such commission, as to go out and try to save the unborn in the womb of the unbelieving world but rather to preach the gospel to the men and women who are do, so that they can get saved and have their hearts changed by God's Holy Spirit indwelling their hearts like should be the case with you also.

I will bet that if you lived during the time of the early church under the Roman Empire and they allowed abortion under their human laws, you wouldn't do it, for if you did, then it could cost you your own life.

By the way, if you want to apply the 6th commandment in the way you are doing it concerning the unborn, what about the unjust murders done by the Roman Empire upon many innocent people who lived under that Empire and why is it that you never read about any in the early church trying to save them from these murders?

Murder is murder and killing is killing and your pro life shouldn't only be concerned with the unborn but it should be concerned with the many who are dying from the corona virus especially being they are going to suffer in the second death if they don't get saved and unlike the unborn who die in the womb.


Will you give up any of your freedom or life to try and save them also or will you instead belly ache about the inconvenience of being instructed by the medical professionals about wearing a mask and socially distancing yourself for a short season in order to keep this virus from spreading and killing even more people than it has already.

All believers should be doing this if only for the witness that it gives to the lost that they care about the lives of others, but unfortunately the greater majority are not doing this.

No, but instead they are being mesmerized by the cult of their following of Donald J. Trump and hanging on every word he speaks even though he has proven to be a habitual liar by what continuously is coming out of his mouth and over and over again also.
 
Who EXACTLY is "You people"?
You who claim to believe in God and claim that I am insulting you personally when I have never done any such thing but have only spoken what I have about the apostate churches and what they are teaching that is false and there is a lot of it also.

If you go over to the trinity forum and read some of my posts over there, I give proof from the scriptures also.

For instance, many a trin has argued that in John 2:19-22, Jesus said that he would raise his body back to life from the dead because he said in verse 19, "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again".

However, when you read what John wrote in verse 22 concerning what he and the disciples understood him to be saying, he used the passive voice verb translated "raised" to express what they all understood Jesus to be saying.

This proves that none of them understood him to be saying that he would actually resurrect himself but only that he would raise himself from where he was laid in the tomb after God restored his life back into his body after dying.

For John very clearly reveals that he was passive in his resurrection and so do the other disciples in their writings as well.

So when he explained what him and the other disciples understood and believed Jesus to be saying after he was raised, John used the (passive voice) "raised" to explain it in verse 22.


Therefore, whenever a trin claims and teaches that Jesus raised himself from the dead, they are actually telling a lie and not speaking the truth.

That goes for Jesus words in John 10:17-18 also and I can also prove right from that context and the Greek word "hina" in verse 17, that he wasn't claiming that he would raise himself from the dead there either. ,



John 10:17, "Therefore my Father loves me, because I lay down my life, "hina" "in order that" I might receive it back again"

For he speaks of this as a commandment which he received from the Father and the Commandment was, that if he laid down his life of his own volition, he would therefore as a result of his obedience, receive it back again by God's authority on it and this authority was the word of God on it because God cannot lie.

So his part in receiving his life back from the dead by God's Holy Spirit was in his obedience to lay it down first of his own choice and therefore no such thing was every said to the effect that he would raise himself from the dead like many a trin tries to sell people about it.

By the way, did the OT ever instruct the Jews that one being called God's Son or having God say that he is his Father ever actually meant that the person being spoken of this way was a literal Son of God's own ontology and substance?

Please do show me in the OT where the idiom Son of God was ever meant to be referring to a literal Son of God's own ontology or substance.

You will not be able to, for no such proof exists in the OT but only that the idiom "Son of God" refers to an anointed human heir to God's throne and therefore his Son and which also means that the Jews falsely accused Jesus of saying this by calling himself God's Son and God his Father.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
So when he explained what him and the other disciples understood and believed Jesus to be saying after he was raised, John used the (passive voice) "raised" to explain it in verse 22.

There is a perfect example of you playing fast and loose with God's word:

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise [ACTIVE] it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up [ACTIVE] in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.


It is ACTIVE voice when Jesus tells them in v.19.
It is ACTIVE voice when they repeat it back to Him in v.20.

But you want to pretend that DOESN'T EXIST.
You REJECT the word of God.
 
There is a perfect example of you playing fast and loose with God's word:

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise [ACTIVE] it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up [ACTIVE] in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.


It is ACTIVE voice when Jesus tells them in v.19.
It is ACTIVE voice when they repeat it back to Him in v.20.

But you want to pretend that DOESN'T EXIST.
You REJECT the word of God.
First, being you have problems understanding that the words of Jesus were not to be taken literally, Jesus was using figurative language and not literal, otherwise he would have said, destroy my body and in three days I will raise it up again.

Secondly, what he was saying is that he would raise his body up from where is lay in the tomb after they had him killed and after God restored his life back into his body so that he could and that is why it is in the active voice.

Notice, he never said that he would actually restore his own life from the dead but only that he would raise up his body after they killed him.

Thirdly, in the way you are interpreting it, you have a contradiction in what John wrote right after Jesus said this and also what the other writers of the gospels wrote in their narratives about it likewise.

This is not uncommon for trins however, for they contradict the scriptures all over the place with their false doctrine and this is just one good example of that.





Therefore, they obviously did not understand him to mean that he would actually restore his own life back from the dead, for John used the passive for "raised" to explain it and so did the other NT writers in their narratives also.

Just go and read their narratives of the resurrection dude, for not one of them ever gave testimony in any of their narratives that Jesus restored his own life back from the dead after he was crucified but that the Father did and by his Holy Spirit.



The fact remains therefore, that he cannot both be active and passive in his being raised to life again from being dead, for it simply doesn't work.

Therefore it is you who are playing fast and loose with God's word and all because you attempt to figure it all out with your flesh instead of by the Spirit like we were instructed to do.

So get a hold of this fact dude, you cannot remove what John said in verse 22, nor the passive voice verb "raised" to express what he and the other disciples truly understood Jesus to be saying in verse 19, so deal with it or remain in your spiritual blindness, for it is your choice.
 
First, being you have problems understanding that the words of Jesus were not to be taken literally, Jesus was using figurative language and not literal, otherwise he would have said, destroy my body and in three days I will raise it up again.

Secondly, what he was saying is that he would raise his body up from where is lay in the tomb after they had him killed and after God restored his life back into his body so that he could and that is why it is in the active voice.

Notice, he never said that he would actually restore his own life from the dead but only that he would raise up his body after they killed him.

Thirdly, in the way you are interpreting it, you have a contradiction in what John wrote right after Jesus said this and also what the other writers of the gospels wrote in their narratives about it likewise.

This is not uncommon for trins however, for they contradict the scriptures all over the place with their false doctrine and this is just one good example of that.





Therefore, they obviously did not understand him to mean that he would actually restore his own life back from the dead, for John used the passive for "raised" to explain it and so did the other NT writers in their narratives also.

Just go and read their narratives of the resurrection dude, for not one of them ever gave testimony in any of their narratives that Jesus restored his own life back from the dead after he was crucified but that the Father did and by his Holy Spirit.



The fact remains therefore, that he cannot both be active and passive in his being raised to life again from being dead, for it simply doesn't work.

Therefore it is you who are playing fast and loose with God's word and all because you attempt to figure it all out with your flesh instead of by the Spirit like we were instructed to do.

So get a hold of this fact dude, you cannot remove what John said in verse 22, nor the passive voice verb "raised" to express what he and the other disciples truly understood Jesus to be saying in verse 19, so deal with it or remain in your spiritual blindness, for it is your choice.
 
However, I have proven from the scriptures that Jesus didn't raise himself from the dead and never actually said that he did or meant that he did either.

For I have shown this from both John 2:19-22 and also in John 10:17-18 but you can be stubborn about this if you want and continue in your false doctrines about it and which you are prone to do anyhow being the confused trin that you are and that all trins are also.

However, there are many of your own scholars who would disagree with you on this and I have spoken to a one of them just recently also and on a face book Bible discussion.

So after talking with him, I looked at some commentaries by your trin scholars and there are enough of them that would disagree with you, for you to reconsider your false doctrines on this, because they are false doctrines.


By the way, just consider the divisions you trins have in doctrine, for you need to seriously consider why you are in divisions over these things also, for your way of attempting to learn the truth is what the problem is, for it is wrong.
 
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