Obeying the doctrine

brightfame52

Well-known member
Faith alone theology. Sola fide. Obtaining eternal life independent of anything we do. Salvation by grace, excluding all works.
In fact people are saved at first apart from faith I believe. Legally people Christ died for are saved simply by His Blood/Death alone.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Sure I believe in Salvation by Grace apart from works. But that's in scripture
Is this the evidence of that?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Salvation might be apart from the works of the law--but not works, as in obedience to the gospel.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Is this the evidence of that?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Salvation might be apart from the works of the law--but not works, as in obedience to the gospel.
Those verses seem to be speaking about something else than Salvation by Grace apart from works. How about Ephesians 2:8-9
 

TomFL

Well-known member
In fact people are saved at first apart from faith I believe. Legally people Christ died for are saved simply by His Blood/Death alone.
That is false

John 3:17–18 (KJV 1900)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That is false

John 3:17–18 (KJV 1900)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
No it is not false. When were these who Christ died for reconciled to God by His Death according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No it is not false. When were these who Christ died for reconciled to God by His Death according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
Of course it is false

Everyone was an enemy of God before being saved

but the saved believed and were reconciled

That verse does not help you at all

You need to read the context and not just lift verses out of the context and pour your theology into it

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Of course it is false

Everyone was an enemy of God before being saved

but the saved believed and were reconciled

That verse does not help you at all

You need to read the context and not just lift verses out of the context and pour your theology into it

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You failed to answer my question
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
So you believe obedience to the Gospel is a work? Yes or No
I believe any acts of obedience to Christ is a work.

That the reason it's called faith alone--as they separate out all acts of obedience(works) in obtaining salvation.

Christ didn't:

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No it is not false. When were these who Christ died for reconciled to God by His Death according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
The question is when were they justified and saved

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The question is when were they justified and saved

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Evasion everyone. Are you going to answer the question about Rom 5:10 or what?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Dberrie

Okay then you believe in Salvation by works! That's a damnable heresy and is against Salvation by Grace.
And this is the evidence of that?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Is that an example of "Salvation by works"? Is that against "Salvation by grace"?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Evasion everyone. Are you going to answer the question about Rom 5:10 or what?
I just told you

they were justified when they believed

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

and Christ died for all men

Hebrews 2:8–9 (KJV 1900)
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Finally

Full reconciliation is double sided

2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (KJV 1900)
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Christ died for the world reconciling the world to God yet the world is called to be reconciled to God

which is why you were told the real question is when were they justified and saved
 
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