Obeying the doctrine

brightfame52

Well-known member
And this is the evidence of that?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Is that an example of "Salvation by works"? Is that against "Salvation by grace"?
No those scriptures don't evidence that, I don't see them related to your salvation by works heresy.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I just told you

they were justified when they believed

Romans 5 (KJV 1900)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

and Christ died for all men

Hebrews 2:8–9 (KJV 1900)
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Finally

Full reconciliation is double sided

2 Corinthians 5:19–20 (KJV 1900)
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Christ died for the world reconciling the world to God yet the world is called to be reconciled to God

which is why you were told the real question is when were they justified and saved
Another evasion of Rom 5:10
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
2John9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

Why does one have to obey the doctrine of Christ in order to have the Father and Son?

How does that fit Reformed theology?

One who is not saved doesn't abide in Christ...one who is saved abides in Christ.

According to your belief..what happens when you sin? As we know when you sin you are not abiding in Christ.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
One who is not saved doesn't abide in Christ...one who is saved abides in Christ.
If that is your opinion--then so be it.

But it isn't the Biblical testimony--as that testimony is the exact reverse order:

2John9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

IOW--those who abide in the doctrine--have both the Father and Son.

How do we comport that to faith alone theology?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
And this is the evidence of that?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Is that an example of "Salvation by works"? Is that against "Salvation by grace"?
I see no relation with your salvation by works heresy (
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I see no relation with your salvation by works heresy (
What do you consider as a "salvation by works heresy" about the posted scriptures?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2John9

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


That it does not match your theology?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What do you consider as a "salvation by works heresy" about the posted scriptures?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2John9

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


That it does not match your theology?
I just told you. You have not found any scripture to support the heresy of salvation by works. Because it ain't none. Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I just told you. You have not found any scripture to support the heresy of salvation by works
Could you give us a cite where I ever postulated such a doctrine? Never have I claimed any such thing.

Bright--that is the usual accusation the faith alone throws against the wall whenever scriptures are posted which do not comport to their theology:

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2John9

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


So--is that the evidence for your accusation of "salvation by works"?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
When were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10 and how?

Romans 4:21–5:2 (KJV 1900)
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

when they were justified by faith

then they had peace (reconciliation) with God}

by the death of Christ

Rom 5:10 addresses the we who were justified by faith at Rom 5:1
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Romans 4:21–5:2 (KJV 1900)
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

when they were justified by faith

then they had peace (reconciliation) with God}

by the death of Christ

Rom 5:10 addresses the we who were justified by faith at Rom 5:1
More evasion. What about Rom 5:9 how are they justified according to that verse?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
More evasion. What about Rom 5:9 how are they justified according to that verse?
According to the scriptures--all men were "justified of Life"--through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one
the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are now released from the condemnation of the Fall--and now have an opportunity to inherit eternal life.(justified of life)

Released from both spiritual and physical death--as it relates to the Fall.(still accountable for their own choices)

All of mankind now born saved--until the time appointed of the Father. All men now answer for their own choices--and not Adam's.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
According to the scriptures--all men were "justified of Life"--through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one
the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are now released from the condemnation of the Fall--and now have an opportunity to inherit eternal life.(justified of life)

Released from both spiritual and physical death--as it relates to the Fall.(still accountable for their own choices)

All of mankind now born saved--until the time appointed of the Father. All men now answer for their own choices--and not Adam's.
Rom 5:18, Glad you brought it up, how were they Justified according to that verse ?
 

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
2John9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son

Why does one have to obey the doctrine of Christ in order to have the Father and Son?

How does that fit Reformed theology?

Every bible verse has a context.


Question: "Who is the elect lady in 2 John?"

Almost the entire New Testament is warning about deceivers, and the antichrist. Jesus talks about it. Paul talks about it. Peter talks about it.

Here are some verses that prove what I am saying.

This is from 1 John. Surely you aren't suggesting that John changed his mind, or are you?

They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).

And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).

“Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).


See if you can find a verse that talks about the author and protector of the faith.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Huh? Faith alone is only a part of reformed theology. A necessary foundational part, nevertheless.

Maybe this will help in your understanding.


I was only addressing that part. Beloved--I believe that faith alone theology is a doctrine which more rests on than what one might believe:


The Article upon Which the Church Stands or Falls

Luther said that justification by faith alone is the article upon which the church stands or falls. Now, we could view that from the vantage point of the twentieth century as an exaggeration or an overstatement, but it was clearly Luther’s conviction that this doctrine was so important because it touched the very heart and soul of the gospel itself.

It was Luther’s contention that justification is the article upon which the church stands or falls, and it’s the article upon which we stand or fall, because it is the article that reveals to us how we are redeemed.

The Hinge upon Which the Christian Life Turns

Calvin took a similar view of the importance of the doctrine. He used a different metaphor. He said that justification by faith alone is the hinge upon which everything in the Christian life turns.
 
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