Obeying the doctrine

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom

Sorry reconciliation brings peace

Thats why those who Christ died for are not under Gods wrath while unbelievers, Hes at Peace with them because Christs death reconciled them. You cant be under Gods wrath and reconciled to God at the same time.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
tom



Thats why those who Christ died for are not under Gods wrath while unbelievers, Hes at Peace with them because Christs death reconciled them. You cant be under Gods wrath and reconciled to God at the same time.
You missed the point

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

you have peace when justified by faith

Rom. 5:2 —KJV
“By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The meaning is pretty obvious if you do not allow your theology to override the meaning

That is the word of God

John 3:36 —KJV
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

the word some is just not in the verse
Those under the wrath of God in Jn 3:36 are permanently under His Wrath, for the promise is they shall not see life. They are the unbelieving non elect, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those under the wrath of God in Jn 3:36 are permanently under His Wrath, for the promise is they shall not see life. They are the unbelieving non elect, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction.
as long as they don't believe

It does not change

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
 
tom



Thats why those who Christ died for are not under Gods wrath while unbelievers, Hes at Peace with them because Christs death reconciled them. You cant be under Gods wrath and reconciled to God at the same time.
However, walking in the flesh is not being reconciled is it? We must walk in the Spirit but that old carnal man dead in trespasses and sins hangs on to the new spiritual creation like glue! No wonder God is a consuming fire! :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You missed the point

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

you have peace when justified by faith

Rom. 5:2 —KJV
“By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
Yeah they will be and are Justified by Faith and thats what Rom 5:1-2 speak to, however they were Justified and reconciled to God prior to faith, and while they were enemies.

How were they said to be Justified in Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
as long as they don't believe

It does not change

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
No, it says they shall not see life Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

Shall not see life covers the future also, its future tense. Those presently under Gods wrath shall not see life in the future, so no hope ! They are under Gods wrath because Christ did not propitiate Gods wrath on their behalf !
 
as long as they don't believe

It does not change

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
The doctrine of the "elect" by the reformed group is misrepresented and dishonours God. They do not understand verses in their proper context and thus divide the scriptures and nullify the Word. They deny Jesus as the Savior of the world and limited atonement is a denial of Jesus atonement plain and simple!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The doctrine of the "elect" by the reformed group is misrepresented and dishonours God. They do not understand verses in their proper context and thus divide the scriptures and nullify the Word. They deny Jesus as the Savior of the world and limited atonement is a denial of Jesus atonement plain and simple!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Don't be shy tell us how you really feel
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The doctrine of the "elect" by the reformed group is misrepresented and dishonours God. They do not understand verses in their proper context and thus divide the scriptures and nullify the Word. They deny Jesus as the Savior of the world and limited atonement is a denial of Jesus atonement plain and simple!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Limited Atonement is the Truth. There's no Gospel without it !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No, it says they shall not see life Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

Shall not see life covers the future also, its future tense. Those presently under Gods wrath shall not see life in the future, so no hope ! They are under Gods wrath because Christ did not propitiate Gods wrath on their behalf !
Indeed

And you have then receiving life contradicting John

at both verses

John 3:36 —KJV
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

add

Mark 16:16 —KJV
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
sd

However, walking in the flesh is not being reconciled is it?

Yes, thats how they walk when being enemies, they're not yet born again and yet reconciled to God by His death. Now they arent yet knowledgeable of it !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Indeed

And you have then receiving life contradicting John

at both verses

John 3:36 —KJV
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

add

Mark 16:16 —KJV
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John the one wrote they shall not see life. Thats what you get for not studying scripture, you just post !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
John the one wrote they shall not see life. Thats what you get for not studying scripture, you just post !
and you have them seeing life

John says they are under wrath

you say they are reconciled and have peace

John says they are condemned already

You say they are not under condemnation

I will go with John
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
and you have them seeing life

John says they are under wrath

you say they are reconciled and have peace

John says they are condemned already

You say they are not under condemnation

I will go with John
The ones in Jn 3:36 under the wrath of God, are permanently unbelievers, and have no hope in the future. The unbelievers Christ died for are reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers and never under wrath Rom 5:10. They are never the unbelievers of Jn 3:36
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

You always quote scripture without understanding them. The Ones believing on Christ are not condemned by God, because Christ died for them, He bore their condemnation when He for them was made a curse, so consequently they are given faith to believe on His Name Phil 1:29, they were never condemned by the law.

Now on the other hand, those sinners Christ did not die for, the goats, unfortunately they are condemned by the law and consequently Christ never gives them faith. Their continued unbelief is evidential of them being condemned by the law, so unbelief is a symptom of being condemned already by God and under His Wrath for their sins.

Faith or believing on Christ is reserved only for the sinners Christ died for, all others will never see life and forever will be under Gods wrath !
 
The ones in Jn 3:36 under the wrath of God, are permanently unbelievers, and have no hope in the future. The unbelievers Christ died for are reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers and never under wrath Rom 5:10. They are never the unbelievers of Jn 3:36
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You have taken that out of context and you will be held accountable for doing so.

That scripture also applied to you when you were in the unbelieving state and it seems that you still are.

What do you think Jesus atonement is for? The believer? You have to be joking if you believe that! God states quite clearly that God shut all in unbelief that he may have mercy on all.

Now, when we were in unbelief then we were still under condemnation (judgment) but what happens when God makes a change in one's life and quickens them out of death and makes one a new spiritual creation.

God intends to save all and this "only so many are God's elect who are only saved" is rubbish and negates Jesus atonement. The reformed doctrine is heretical. anti-Christ and demonic. It is a complete denial that Jesus is the Savior of the world and it is a foundation built on sand.

Here is God's intention in this verse and there are many more like this that utterly demolish much of reformed doctrine which deny Jesus as the Savior of the whole world:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The reformed doctrine on election is a selfish doctrine and is not taught correctly at all and there is so much to discuss about election but reformed doctrine discuss very little and most of it is completely out of context with God's purposes for humanity.

Now, I say this to all believers emphatically that if you limit Jesus atonement in quality and scope and God's ability to change hearts to accept the good news then you deny Jesus atonement and most of Christendom do. It is a shame!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
seven day


No I haven't, those under Gods wrath who are not believing, shall never see life, or be saved Jn 3:36
seven day


No I haven't, those under Gods wrath who are not believing, shall never see life, or be saved Jn 3:36
Yes, but saying a little of the truth can do more harm than good and that is what you are doing! Jesus would say verily such and such because there was much more truth to say. Now, that Jesus has died and risen there is much more to consider as a result but you are not telling us all the truth and when you do that you make a mockery of Jesus atonement because he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Those who are not believe are in a temporary state of unbelief just like you were until God made a change in your life but I see not gratitude on your part at all. Keep in context with all the scriptures not just the ones that you cherry pick which divides what God is doing for all of humanity.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes, but saying a little of the truth can do more harm than good and that is what you are doing! Jesus would say verily such and such because there was much more truth to say. Now, that Jesus has died and risen there is much more to consider as a result but you are not telling us all the truth and when you do that you make a mockery of Jesus atonement because he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Those who are not believe are in a temporary state of unbelief just like you were until God made a change in your life but I see not gratitude on your part at all. Keep in context with all the scriptures not just the ones that you cherry pick which divides what God is doing for all of humanity.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
So it is what it is. I know this puts a damper on universalism, that God saves everyone. Some will never be saved or see life !
 
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