Obeying the doctrine

So it is what it is. I know this puts a damper on universalism, that God saves everyone. Some will never be saved or see life !
Why in your heart could you say what you said? Where is your gratitude for what God has done for you and you deny that God will not do the same for some others when the scriptures express clearly otherwise. In effect you deny Jesus atonement and need to repent.

Gpd bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Why in your heart could you say what you said? Where is your gratitude for what God has done for you and you deny that God will not do the same for some others when the scriptures express clearly otherwise. In effect you deny Jesus atonement and need to repent.

Gpd bless you,

SeventhDay
John wrote Jn 3:36 . They which are under Gods wrath, shall not see life ! Life is eternal life as in Matt7:14

14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now thats preaching the whole counsel of God !
 
John wrote Jn 3:36 . They which are under Gods wrath, shall not see life ! Life is eternal life as in Matt7:14

14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now thats preaching the whole counsel of God !
No, it is not preaching the whole council of God and that scripture is true in its proper context but I doubt that you understand what that context is.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The ones in Jn 3:36 under the wrath of God, are permanently unbelievers, and have no hope in the future. The unbelievers Christ died for are reconciled to God while enemies and unbelievers and never under wrath Rom 5:10. They are never the unbelievers of Jn 3:36
Sorry the word permanent does not appear nor does the Greek tense suggest it

Men are reconciled when they believe

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

You need to differentiate between Christ's act and the application of it to the lost
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry the word permanent does not appear nor does the Greek tense suggest it

Men are reconciled when they believe

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”

You need to differentiate between Christ's act and the application of it to the lost
They shall not see life! That's permanent!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
They shall not see life! That's permanent!
As long as they do not believe

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

all unbelievers are under condemnation

The bible knows nothing about a select number of unbelievers of whom this verse is not true

Mark 16:16 —ESV
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
As long as they do not believe

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

all unbelievers are under condemnation

The bible knows nothing about a select number of unbelievers of whom this verse is not true

Mark 16:16 —ESV
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
Jn 3:36 doesnt say as long as they do not believe, it says those under wrath shall not see life ! Thats a promise
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Jn 3:36 doesnt say as long as they do not believe, it says those under wrath shall not see life ! Thats a promise
In John 3:36 believeth not is in the present tense. It is talking about what is going on at that time

PS you left these off

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

all unbelievers are under condemnation

The bible knows nothing about a select number of unbelievers of whom this verse is not true

Mark 16:16 —ESV
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
In John 3:36 believeth not is in the present tense. It is talking about what is going on at that time

PS you left these off

John 3:18 —KJV
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

all unbelievers are under condemnation

The bible knows nothing about a select number of unbelievers of whom this verse is not true

Mark 16:16 —ESV
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
I know all that in Jn 3:36 been known for years. Those under wrath shall not see life and that is future tense! No hope for the future. Sorry
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Tom

all unbelievers are under condemnation
Not true and no scripture says that. The unbelievers Christ died for have been reconciled to God by His Death while being enemies Rom 5:10. Those who are reconciled to God are not under His condemnation. That's a contradiction.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom

all unbelievers are under condemnation

Not those Christ died for, they have nothing for God to condemn in them, their sins have been taken away, to include the sin of unbelief, hence God lays nothing to their charge Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us
 

TomFL

Well-known member
tom



Not those Christ died for, they have nothing for God to condemn in them, their sins have been taken away, to include the sin of unbelief, hence God lays nothing to their charge Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us
The problem is you have a faulty definition of elect

and as a result you make scripture contradict itself

Elect does not mean unconditionally predestined to salvation from the foundation of the earth

It simply means chosen

Christ is in particular the elect

It is in Christ men become elect (chosen in Christ to all the benefits that are available in Christ)

Election is Christocentric

and there is no such such election outside of Christ
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The problem is you have a faulty definition of elect

and as a result you make scripture contradict itself

Elect does not mean unconditionally predestined to salvation from the foundation of the earth

It simply means chosen

Christ is in particular the elect

It is in Christ men become elect (chosen in Christ to all the benefits that are available in Christ)

Election is Christocentric

and there is no such such election outside of Christ
The truth of the matter is those Christ was condemned for, God has nothing to condemn them for.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The truth is the benefits of Christ's atonement are applied only to those who are found to be in Christ through faith
When Christ died the benefit is in effect. Thats why those He died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies. The benefit has been applied.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
When Christ died the benefit is in effect. Thats why those He died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies. The benefit has been applied.
Only for those in Christ through faith

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The truth is the benefits of Christ's atonement are applied only to those who are found to be in Christ through faith
In fact the benefits of Christs death is applied before the ones He died for are born sinners. All for whom He died are born sanctified unto God Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Only for those in Christ through faith

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
The benefit was applied while being enemies, that's why they are reconciled.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The benefit was applied while being enemies, that's why they are reconciled.
No the sacrifice was made when we were enemies

Rom. 5:8 —KJV
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Benefits are only in Christ

Eph. 1:3 —KJV
“¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

and one is sealed in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 
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