Obeying the doctrine

The truth is the benefits of Christ's atonement are applied only to those who are found to be in Christ through faith
Please tell who does not have faith when Jesus is finished with them or do you believe Jesus atonement is not effective in quality and scope? If one can not believe in God that saved them because Jesus is the Savior of the whole world then Jesus has not saved them or his atonement is ineffective. I would not go either route when you consider all the scriptures showing that God will make all complete in him:
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This includes all which is the present church who Jesus has called to himself and the ones that come in later.

Please take note:

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Consider the Reformed doctrine false, and heretical, and anti-Christ and expose their damaging doctrine that denies Jesus as the Savior of the whole world. Do you do that? If not you ought to!

There is a consummation of the ages when Death shall be vanquished and God will be all in all. Who is teaching it?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

This has all to do with God saving all and that does not mean only the elect are saved which are chosen out of the called to Christ because all are called. Now, many are called and few are chosen but in what context because we have the first fruit remnant, the Bride made ready and yes, the children of the bride which is not taught but it does not mean there are no scriptural implications to indicate this because there are!

Now, one last scripture to consider that shows God desire or will and God fulfills his will or desire:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Do not get caught up with those who try to qualify "all" to makes Jesus atonement mean God only is calling some to himself because it is an outright lie an a denial of Jesus saving the whole world.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The reformed doctrine ought to be exposed for its major errors and though they have many things right they deny Jesus is the Savior of the world thus deny the faith!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Please tell who does not have faith when Jesus is finished with them or do you believe Jesus atonement is not effective in quality and scope? If one can not believe in God that saved them because Jesus is the Savior of the whole world then Jesus has not saved them or his atonement is ineffective. I would not go either route when you consider all the scriptures showing that God will make all complete in him:
Save it

2 Thessalonians 1:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:9–11 (KJV 1900)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No the sacrifice was made when we were enemies

Rom. 5:8 —KJV
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Benefits are only in Christ

Eph. 1:3 —KJV
“¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

and one is sealed in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
The sacrifice was made and the reconciliation was made while being enemies. In Rom 5:10 the word reconciled is in the past tense.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The sacrifice was made and the reconciliation was made while being enemies. In Rom 5:10 the word reconciled is in the past tense.
Yes in Christ

But men who were never even born at that time were not in Christ

Unbelievers are not in Christ

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”


Men are sealed in Christ after they have believed
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes in Christ

But men who were never even born at that time were not in Christ

Unbelievers are not in Christ

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”


Men are sealed in Christ after they have believed
Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while being unbelievers. That proves His Death had been applied without them having faith.
 
Save it

2 Thessalonians 1:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:9–11 (KJV 1900)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
If you do not harmonize with the scriptures that state that God is reconciling all unto himself then your understanding of the scriptures you quote me are out of context with God's ultimate purpose and will and you like the reformist deny that Jesus is the Savior of the whole world. Therefore start harmonizing the scriptures and change your desires for what God is doing accordingly. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
If you do not harmonize with the scriptures that state that God is reconciling all unto himself then your understanding of the scriptures you quote me are out of context with God's ultimate purpose and will and you like the reformist deny that Jesus is the Savior of the whole world. Therefore start harmonizing the scriptures and change your desires for what God is doing accordingly. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Jesus is the Saviour of the world of His Sheep. The rest shall not see life!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Jesus is the Saviour of the world of His Sheep. The rest shall not see life!
Not what the verses states

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not what the verses states

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
Speaking of His Sheep
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Those Christ died for were reconciled to God while being unbelievers. That proves His Death had been applied without them having faith.
Sorry your premise is false

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”


peace with God is only possible for those justified by faith

You confound the reconciling power of Christ's sacrifice with reconciliation applied
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes. one becomes a sheep and how is that accomplished? It is important and demolished your false doctrine! :)

Repent!

God bless you,

SeventhDay
You can find someone to discuss it with you. In the meantime know Christ came to save His Sheep/People from their sins specifically Matt 1:21
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Speaking of His Sheep
No sheep in those verses


John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry your premise is false

Rom. 5:1 —KJV
“¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”


peace with God is only possible for those justified by faith

You confound the reconciling power of Christ's sacrifice with reconciliation applied
They were reconciled to God while being enemies by His Death. Read Rom 5:10
If you can not deal with the question then why do you not just say so? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
I already stated that
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No sheep in those verses


John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

1 John 4:14 —KJV
“¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
That's all it could be. Christ didn't die for or come to save any others.
 
They were reconciled to God while being enemies by His Death. Read Rom 5:10

I already stated that
I can help you deal with the question and your lack of faith that Jesus is the Savior of the world and the scriptures state that clearly!

Do you love the truth? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
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