Old Covenant
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SDAchristian
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Prologue:
AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
AV Hb 9:17-22 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The copy made by Moses of the original covenant in Heaven, dedicated by the blood of animals.
What is your point here ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
AV Hb 9:17-22 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
The copy made by Moses of the original covenant in Heaven, dedicated by the blood of animals.
What is your point here ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
The old covenant is the life of the Israelite under the old dispensation under the Mosaic law. It was good, but it gave way to an entirely new way of doing things. This new way of doing things is much better than the old way under the old and the old is now obsolete and faded from view.
SDAchristian
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Quiz Question: Did the change of covenants, changed the definite of sin ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
No Mike, but it did end a bunch of ritual laws that were strictly for the Israelites such as all of the ritual laws and clean and unclean laws to name some. May I remind you that the weekly Sabbath was defined also as a ritual law.
So under the Law that Jesus was under when He was here that mosaic Law/covenant law included both the book of laws and the Ten Commandments, one being inside the ark of covenant and one outside it. Both though are as sacred as the other and both are applicable as a whole.
Where in the New Testament after Jesus died was the mosaic covenant divided? Is there scripture to show that the mosaic covenant was separated and one part was still in force. Both though are the mosaic covenant because there was only one mosaic covenant.
I wholeheartedly agree. What came out of the mouth of God is just as important as what He wrote with His fnger.
Jeremiah prophesied of the coming of the New Covenant. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the covenant given at Sinai bringing it to an end at the ✝. He then ratified the new and better covenant with His blood. Covenants contain rules and when a covenant ends so do the rules. Thus, the laws of the covenant given at Sinai ceased.
SDAchristian
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Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Are you calling Paul a liar then ???
"For this ye know", I really need to know if you know in your heart before GOD ???
"May I remind you that the weekly Sabbath was defined also as a ritual law.", Your word is not good enough, I need GOD's words saying so.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
AV Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Are you calling Paul a liar then ???
"For this ye know", I really need to know if you know in your heart before GOD ???
"May I remind you that the weekly Sabbath was defined also as a ritual law.", Your word is not good enough, I need GOD's words saying so.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Know what Mike? You write in riddles.
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Matt 15: 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
Not that I know of.
Know what Mike? You write in riddles.
Fair enough Mike. Maybe you can tell us why you can't believe that the Sabbath along with all the other Holy days God gave to the Israelites were ceremonial. We know that laws dealing with morality are how we relate to God and to our fellow man. God's moral laws deal with mankind. Circumcision, new moon cerebration, purification and all the yearly Sabbaths were ceremonial. Just how did the weekly Sabbath morph into a morality issue. The Bible does not indicate between moral and ceremonial, nor does it indicate that the ten commandments were ever called moral. Ellen borrowed that from the Methodists.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ac 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Will Peter change his testimony, after receiving the Holy Spirit, and before, during and after a vision ???
AV Ac 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
If your private interpretation is true, why is Peter using this objection with the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost ???
I told you enough to choose faith or the lies of others. Continued discussions will prove this.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Ac 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Will Peter change his testimony, after receiving the Holy Spirit, and before, during and after a vision ???
If GOD defined what foods go into the mouth, then this statement is 100% truth.
AV Ac 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
If your private interpretation is true, why is Peter using this objection with the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost ???
I told you enough to choose faith or the lies of others. Continued discussions will prove this.
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The sides are very plain to the people of GOD, in this "war".
AV Lv 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.
Plainly the issue is, when GOD uses personal pronouns, many are unable to use the Holy Spirit to draw meaning from GOD's usage to GOD's people.
Check Question: Where is "my sanctuary" then ??? <<< You realize there is more to this question than you may realize, Right ???
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The most effective way to deal with the lies the devil tells.
AV Jn 8:42-47 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
Jesus was very plain here in his testimony. And the devil's followers that re-tells the devil's lies, Right ???
What do you think, would GOD's people have an advantage with the Holy Spirit to understand GOD's meanings in GOD's own words ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The sides are very plain to the people of GOD, in this "war".
AV Lv 23:32 It [shall be] unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth [day] of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
AV Lv 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.
Plainly the issue is, when GOD uses personal pronouns, many are unable to use the Holy Spirit to draw meaning from GOD's usage to GOD's people.
Check Question: Where is "my sanctuary" then ??? <<< You realize there is more to this question than you may realize, Right ???
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The most effective way to deal with the lies the devil tells.
AV Jn 8:42-47 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
Jesus was very plain here in his testimony. And the devil's followers that re-tells the devil's lies, Right ???
What do you think, would GOD's people have an advantage with the Holy Spirit to understand GOD's meanings in GOD's own words ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
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SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 2C 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV 2C 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
How does a person become "unclean" in the NT Paul's understanding then ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Common Tater
Active member
Which unclean law was Paul referring to in Ephesians 5:5?
Common Tater
Active member
I wish you had quoted some of the verses prior to 23:32.
Again the LORD said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. You shall hold a sacred assembly and humble yourselves, and present an offering made by fire to the LORD.
On this day you are not to do any work, for it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the LORD your God. If anyone does not humble himself on this day, he must be cut off from his people. I will destroy from among his people anyone who does any work on this day.
You are not to do any work at all. This is a permanent statute for the generations to come, wherever you live. It will be a Sabbath of complete rest for you, and you shall humble yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to keep your Sabbath.”
Leviticus 23:26-32 NASB
Yom Kippur is what is being referred to here. Are you saying that we must observe Yom Kippur? If you slide on up to the beginning of this chapter, you will once again see that God is talking to the Children of Israel.
What I am concerned with is people who twist the context out of God's meanings and words so that they no longer mean what He actually said.
SDAchristian
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CharismaticLady
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Thank you for this scripture! I will add it to my memory bank on the LAW vs. SPIRIT
Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Exodus 34:28.
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
Galatians 4:21-31
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
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SDAchristian
Well-known member
Please think of this as a parallel universe.
The heavenly temple is the spiritual reality, that has been obscured by lies of the devil.
The earthly is a copy we can examine for the truths it contains ABOUT the heavenly reality. Any thinking related to the earthly is a "type".
Most theologians refer to the parallelisms as type and anti-type.
AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
Another analogy is "shadow" to the real object casting a shadow.
AV Gn 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
AV Jn 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
So I ask, what is the real lamb of GOD ??? Definitely not an animal with four legs and goes Baaaahhhh, and we cut it's throat. It is up to us to explore the deeper meanings together.
Later, I need to go.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Common Tater
Active member
Please answer the question. You bolded and enlarged the phrase "nor unclean person" and I am asking for clarification. Which unclean law(s) was Paul referring to?
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
At first, the disciples were confused as well.
AV Jn 13:10-11 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
This is a Jesus comment, but betraying GOD makes a person spiritually unclean.
AV Lv 14:20 And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
It makes sense to me, why would GOD want an unrepentant sinner in heaven ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
So what came to your mind, physical uncleanness or spiritual uncleanness ???
At first, the disciples were confused as well.
AV Jn 13:10-11 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
This is a Jesus comment, but betraying GOD makes a person spiritually unclean.
AV Lv 14:20 And the priest shall offer the burnt offering and the meat offering upon the altar: and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and he shall be clean.
It makes sense to me, why would GOD want an unrepentant sinner in heaven ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Common Tater
Active member
If you look at the previous post, you started out with Revelation 12:17, which Adventists always use to support their claim that not observing the Sabbath will be the mark of the beast. You then quoted Leviticus 23:32 and emphasized the word "Sabbath" by bolding and enlarging "Your". You know, your. I pointed out that if you would have read the earlier part of the chapter, you would have realized that what was being referred to was the 10th day of the 7th month, the Day of Atonement, not the 7th day Sabbath. That 10th day was to be a Sabbath.
Also, if you bother to read all of Leviticus 26, you will see that conditions of the Old Covenant are being laid out. If you do this, I will do that. Obedience/rewards, disobedience/punishments. Which covenant are you putting yourself under? The Mosaic Covenant with all of its conditions, or the unconditional New Covenant? Please remember that Paul makes it clear that if you put yourself under the first one, you are obligated to keep all of it. You do not get to pick and choose which parts you will obey and which you will ignore.