Old Covenant

Formersda

Active member
AV Isa 66:16-17 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Let us be perfectly clear, I will NEVER put yours words above GOD's words, by order of precedence.

I expect GOD to fulfill GOD's Word to this world. I'm afraid, you will learn an eternal lesson the hard way about GOD's Word.

So you expect GOD to fulfill your word over GOD's, making GOD a liar again ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
It wasn’t my words there Michael it was Gods words, the New Testament is full of warnings about false teachings and it is for us to heed those warnings.

All scripture is inspired by God.
 

Formersda

Active member
Time will tell the Truth about who knew what and when ...

Yours in Christ, Michael
Your correct, do we follow what is clearly stated in the bible, or do we follow what a “prophet” has taught which is contrary to the bible.

Will i be lost if I do not follow a prophet?
 

Formersda

Active member
Simple, SDA Church is not a Theocracy. GOD's started the OC for COI as a Theocracy, at that time of the verse.

This is one of those questions, you should have known the answer to.

While we are on this tangent of the topic: TY @Common Tater for prompting this part of the discussion.

AV Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

A Theocracy will give a death penalty for violating Sundays.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Even if that is partially true, where in the bible does it say that we as the church will face that?

After chapter 3 of Revelation the church is not mentioned again until chapter 20.

Who is bringing in the great tribulation is it Satan or God?
 

Common Tater

Active member
Simple, SDA Church is not a Theocracy. GOD's started the OC for COI as a Theocracy, at that time of the verse.

This is one of those questions, you should have known the answer to.

While we are on this tangent of the topic: TY @Common Tater for prompting this part of the discussion.

AV Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

A Theocracy will give a death penalty for violating Sundays.

Yours in Christ, Michael
If Israel were still a theocracy, would God still have them killing people for breaking the Sabbath? Would this law still be in effect? Or would it be gone because the New Covenant is now in effect?
 
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Common Tater

Active member
Simple, SDA Church is not a Theocracy. GOD's started the OC for COI as a Theocracy, at that time of the verse.

This is one of those questions, you should have known the answer to.

While we are on this tangent of the topic: TY @Common Tater for prompting this part of the discussion.

AV Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

A Theocracy will give a death penalty for violating Sundays.

Yours in Christ, Michael
BTW, could you please provide some actual biblical support that says you will be killed for when you worship, rather than who you worship. This claptrap comes from Ellen White, not the Bible.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 1C 11:28-29 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
It wasn’t my words there Michael it was Gods words, the New Testament is full of warnings about false teachings and it is for us to heed those warnings.
All scripture is inspired by God.
AV 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I can examine "all good works", so then, I know GOD can too.

AV 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

We can also debate "rightly dividing the word of truth" as well !!!

You do know that all bad/unclean/unrighteous works are sin, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
If Israel were still a theocracy, would God still have them killing people for breaking the Sabbath? Would this law still be in effect? Or would it be gone because the New Covenant is now in effect?
AV 1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

I can discern when someone 'reject's GOD's theocracy.

AV Ac 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The Gospel is GOD's theocracy restored, as created.

"would God still have them killing people for breaking the Sabbath?", Debatable for sure, just like the sticks incident, GOD would order the termination of that life contract, if GOD was still 'reign'ing.

The salvation from, and total absence of sin, will be GLORIOUS !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV 1C 11:28-29 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

AV 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I can examine "all good works", so then, I know GOD can too.

AV 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

We can also debate "rightly dividing the word of truth" as well !!!

You do know that all bad/unclean/unrighteous works are sin, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Just plain reading of the word Michael, not doing gymnastics with the words.
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV 1C 11:28-29 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

AV 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I can examine "all good works", so then, I know GOD can too.

AV 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

We can also debate "rightly dividing the word of truth" as well !!!

You do know that all bad/unclean/unrighteous works are sin, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
I didn’t know that you have the attribute only God has omnience? You know me better than God? Do you know my heart? Are you all knowing?

I don’t divide the word of truth I allow the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture not anyone else.

Just like you said in defence of EGW when those who went to stone the woman caught in adulatory, Jesus said to her neither do I condemn you. You can condemn all you want but the actual sign that you are a true believer is love.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 1C 2:12-15 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Just plain reading of the word Michael, not doing gymnastics with the words.
AV 2Pt 3:15-16 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

People who are void of the Holy Spirit's insight are not going to get it right.

I am willing to be judge by them("the natural man"), so that GOD can judge them back spiritually.

I am not done with this statement of yours, and will offer other rebuttals as I pray and study this through.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ro 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
You can condemn all you want but the actual sign that you are a true believer is love.
AV Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

So who will join those who "kill" for the mark/image of the beast(a modern theocracy) ???

When these things come true, we will all see who remains faithful to GOD alone !!!

AV Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

It is too sad that many, do not see the whole Decalogue in Paul's rendering of "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." with Jesus' "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

"but the actual sign that you are a true believer is love.", But they will ALWAYS keep love to GOD first !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV 1C 2:12-15 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

AV 2Pt 3:15-16 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

People who are void of the Holy Spirit's insight are not going to get it right.

I am willing to be judge by them("the natural man"), so that GOD can judge them back spiritually.

I am not done with this statement of yours, and will offer other rebuttals as I pray and study this through.

Yours in Christ, Michael
I am willing to be judge by them("the natural man"), so that GOD can judge them back spiritually.
So you have special privilege to judge? Who gave you that privilege? Is this privilege something only you have? Where in the bible does it say that?

People who are void of the Holy Spirit's insight are not going to get it right.
You don’t know that your not God.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ac 7:51-52 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
AV Ac 7:55-58 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast [him] out of the city, and stoned [him]: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Salvation History has this sad way of repeating itself, with different details.
I am willing to be judge by them("the natural man"), so that GOD can judge them back spiritually.
So you have special privilege to judge? Who gave you that privilege? Is this privilege something only you have? Where in the bible does it say that?
AV Jn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

"So you have special privilege to judge?", So following Jesus' words are an issue again ???

AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"Who gave you that privilege?", The GODhead !!!

AV Jn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

"Is this privilege something only you have?", Everyone has a free will choice(or judgment over themselves) from GOD.

AV 1C 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

"Where in the bible does it say that?", Answer Paul's question, if you know that you are a "saint" ???
People who are void of the Holy Spirit's insight are not going to get it right.
You don’t know that your not God.
Can I know, that I can be like Jesus then ???

A Judgment like this, is easy for those who do not know(or "do always resist the Holy Ghost") the Holy Spirit.

AV Mt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

As I have said before paraphrasing Jesus, "Goats do not recognize Jesus in the sheep."

AV Jn 17:20-22 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

The Comforter understands the oneness relationship between man and GOD.

AV Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
AV Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
AV Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Comforter helps others to know Jesus' words too.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Just like you said in defence of EGW when those who went to stone the woman caught in adulatory, Jesus said to her neither do I condemn you. You can condemn all you want but the actual sign that you are a true believer is love.
AV Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

In my opinion: I will wait for the Sunday Law by "the image of the beast", to provide evidence of all the hypocrites in condemnation, who do not understand they worship a theocracy "in their right hand, or in their foreheads".

GOD's Second Chance Cause:
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

For those who listen to the Holy Spirit's call.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

In my opinion: I will wait for the Sunday Law by "the image of the beast", to provide evidence of all the hypocrites in condemnation, who do not understand they worship a theocracy "in their right hand, or in their foreheads".

GOD's Second Chance Cause:
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

For those who listen to the Holy Spirit's call.

Yours in Christ, Michael
You can wait for it, I won’t be there as I’ll be with Jesus because of the rapture.

You can sit and be persecuted for your unrighteousness as the end times is about God pouring out His wrath on this earth.
You are teaching another gospel .
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Ac 7:51-52 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
AV Ac 7:55-58 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast [him] out of the city, and stoned [him]: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Salvation History has this sad way of repeating itself, with different details.

AV Jn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

"So you have special privilege to judge?", So following Jesus' words are an issue again ???

AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"Who gave you that privilege?", The GODhead !!!

AV Jn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

"Is this privilege something only you have?", Everyone has a free will choice(or judgment over themselves) from GOD.

AV 1C 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

"Where in the bible does it say that?", Answer Paul's question, if you know that you are a "saint" ???

Can I know, that I can be like Jesus then ???

A Judgment like this, is easy for those who do not know(or "do always resist the Holy Ghost") the Holy Spirit.

AV Mt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

As I have said before paraphrasing Jesus, "Goats do not recognize Jesus in the sheep."

AV Jn 17:20-22 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

The Comforter understands the oneness relationship between man and GOD.

AV Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
AV Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
AV Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Comforter helps others to know Jesus' words too.

Yours in Christ, Michael
So really what your saying is you can judge but we can’t judge because we are not as “righteous “ as you? We don’t have the “truth“ that you have? Who holds truth Michael? Is it God and His word?

You are the most righteous person then Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 1C 10:11-12 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
You can wait for it, I won’t be there as I’ll be with Jesus because of the rapture.
Pre-Tribulation(plagues) Rapture: Another great cognitive dissonance, in the works for some.

Possibly another reason to turn on the more righteous(covered by the blood) living through till the end of the plagues, like Israel did in the type. Pharaoh the sun worshiper(Because the death of his first born by his own word.) wanted them dead so much.

Is there a parallel, that many are missing here ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
AV Jn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.
So really what your saying is you can judge but we can’t judge because we are not as “righteous “ as you? We don’t have the “truth“ that you have? Who holds truth Michael? Is it God and His word?
What many missed is, I quote GOD's words that judge their actions/works. So the end decision, is that person's will to submit to GOD's will.
You are the most righteous person then Michael
AV 1C 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Nope, I confessed sins where I fell short of Jesus' example.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
AV 1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
You can sit and be persecuted for your unrighteousness as the end times is about God pouring out His wrath on this earth.
You are teaching another gospel .
Another opinion for all of us to view !!!

AV Ja 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Accusation without evidence, again. So which law of the "lawgiver", did I violate ???

So the Gospel is not about the judgment of sin, the redemption from sin and sin's eradication ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
AV 1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Another opinion for all of us to view !!!

AV Ja 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Accusation without evidence, again. So which law of the "lawgiver", did I violate ???

So the Gospel is not about the judgment of sin, the redemption from sin and sin's eradication ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
The gospel is that Jesus died for sins according to Scripture, was buried and rose again according to scripture.

Thats the gospel, Jesus died for our sins end of
 
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