On being “Mormon.”

Once again, for the lurkers....
In the Pew study's "poll", there were ONLY a paltry 32 questions.
And of those 32 questions, only SEVEN (7, or 22%) were about "Bible knowledge".
Other questions were about:
- Jewish history;​
- Roman Catholic doctrienes;​
- Buddhism;​
- Islam​
- politics​

I fail to see how knowledge of any of those topics is relevant to being a good Christian, or knowledge of the Bible.

Further, I think it has been proven that Mormons are INCREDLY ignorant of the Bible, such as not knowing all the Bilblical teachings affirming:
- only one god exists;
- salvation is "not by works";
- ministry is to be paid;
- no one is able to keep the Law of commandmenets;
- elders and deacons are to be older, wise, married, with children, and homeowners;
- the time of prophets has ended;
- no man today qualifies as an "apostle" of Christ;
- only Jews of the tribe of Levi are qualified to be Aaronic priests;
- no man today qualifies as a Melchizedek priests;
- Christ's sacrifice has made the Aaronic priesthood obsolete;
- Christ's sacrifice has made man-made temples obsolete;
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

So any "survey" that tries to proclaim that Mormons know the Bilbe better than Christians is VERY inaccurate indeed.
Where can I go to validate your above so called facts?
 
Yes, this forum is full of it,

No it is not, but Young sure was!
did you know that Christ and Lucifer were brothers? Chuckle
What does this have to do with the sale of alcohol by your second "prophet"?

That is a lie from the pit of hell, that Christ and Satan are brothers! Your church lies through its metaphorical teeth about this, and should be ashamed of itself for promoting such a blasphemous teaching! What an incredibly low Christology your church has!
 
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No it is not, but Young sure was!

What does this have to do with the sale of alcohol by your second "prophet"?

That is a lie from the pit of hell, that Christ and Satan are brothers! Your church lies through its metaphorical teeth about thus, and should be ashamed of itself for promoting such a blasphemous teaching! What an incredibly low Christology your church has!
Sensationalism...
 
Where can I go to validate your above so called facts?

And as usual, Mormons not only never do research, but they don'tn even know HOW to do proper research.

Start here:



Notable excerpts:

32 Total Questions:

"Based on religious affiliation (or lack thereof), the groups that display the highest levels of religious knowledge on this survey include Jews (who get an average of 18.7 out of 32 questions correct)"

Range of Topics in Survey:

"The remainder of this chapter analyzes religious knowledge among different religious groups within key subject areas including
- the Bible,
- Christianity,
- elements of Judaism,
- knowledge of other world religions,
- atheism and agnosticism, and
- religion in public life."​

Only SEVEN Questions Specifically about the Bible:

"Overall, Americans correctly answer an average of 4.2 out of the survey’s seven questions about the Bible,
- including five about the Old Testament and
- two about the New Testament."

Evangelical Protestants (eg. Markk, Bonnie, Janice, and Theo1689) are more Knowledgeable Than Mormons:

"Protestants and Mormons are among the top performers on the biblical knowledge questions, correctly answering an average of 5.2 and 5.1 questions, respectively. Jews also do relatively well, correctly answering 4.8 questions, on average."​
- Protestants 5.2 (out of 7)
- Mormons 5.1 (out of 7)
- Jews (4.8 (out of 7)

The Bible Questions:

Old Testament:​
1) Moses (not Daniel, Elijah or Joseph) was the biblical figure who led the Exodus from Egypt.
2) David (as opposed to Isaiah, Joshua or Solomon) as the biblical figure who killed an enemy by slinging a stone.
3) Abraham was the biblical figure willing to sacrifice his son out of obedience to God.
4) Esther was the woman who saved the Jews from murder by appealing to King Ahasuerus.
5) Which is not one of the Ten Commandments, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, “keep the Sabbath holy”, “do not steal”, “do not commit adultery”
New Testament:​
1) Jesus lived in Nazareth (not Bethlehem, Jerusalem or Jericho) during his childhood and young adulthood.
2) Sermon on the Mount was given by Jesus (not Peter, Paul or John).

Three Percent of Mormons don't know Joseph Smith's Religion!

"The survey also asked people to identify the religion of Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. A majority of Americans (58%) know Smith’s religion, including virtually all U.S. Mormons (97%)."


World Religions:

"The survey included six questions about world religions other than Christianity and Judaism (two about Islam, two about Hinduism, one about Buddhism and one about Sikhism)."​

Global Religions:

Questions:
1) Most people in Thailand are (what religion)
2) Most people in Ethiopia are (what religion)
3) Most people in Indonesia are (what religion)

Atheists and Agnostics:

How many know that Atheists don't believe in God:
Evangelical Protestants: 92%
Mormons: ..................... 86%
How many know that Agnostics are unsure of God's existence:
Evangelical Protestants: 62%
Mormons: ......................53%

Politics

There is no religious test for Pulbic Office in the USA:
Christians: 23%
Mormons: 23%
(stupid question.)​
 
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Where can I go to validate your above so called facts?

This is fun!

Some more interesting factoids:

- 47% of Mormons knew that Esther saved the Jews from murder
- 59% of Mormons knew that Jesus was raised in Nazareth;
- Mormons scored an average of 18% on the two questions on Protestantism;
- Mormons scored an average of 27.5% on the two questions on Catholicism;
- 3% of Mormons didn't even know that Joseph Smith was a Mormon!
- Mormons scored an average of 16.5% on the four questions on Judaism;
- Mormons scored an average of 22.5% on the two questions on Hinduism;
- Mormons scored 12% on the question on Buddhism;
- Mormons scored 27% on the question on Sikhism;
- Mormons scored 25.7% on the questions on national religions;
- Mormons scored 22.5% on the questions on % population who are Muslims or Jews;
- Mormons scored 23% on the question on whether a religious test is necessary for US Public office;

Sounds like Mormons be pretty dumb!
But hey, if Richard and dberrie want to continue to claim this is a reliable survey, then go for it!
 
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This is fun!

Some more interesting factoids:

- 47% of Mormons knew that Esther saved the Jews from murder
- 59% of Mormons knew that Jesus was raised in Nazareth;
- Mormons scored an average of 18% on the two questions on Protestantism;
- Mormons scored an average of 27.5% on the two questions on Catholicism;
- 3% of Mormons didn't even know that Joseph Smith was a Mormon!
- Mormons scored an average of 16.5% on the four questions on Judaism;
- Mormons scored an average of 22.5% on the two questions on Hinduism;
- Mormons scored 12% on the question on Buddhism;
- Mormons scored 27% on the question on Sikhism;
- Mormons scored 25.7% on the questions on national religions;
- Mormons scored 22.5% on the questions on % population who are Muslims or Jews;
- Mormons scored 23% on the question on whether a religious test is necessary for US Public office;

Sounds like Mormons be pretty dumb!
But hey, if Richard and dberrie want to continue to claim this is a reliable survey, then go for it!
And even more clear cut factoids... LOL.

An important study of religion in America has, among other things, a good deal to say about members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Recently published under the title American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us , the sociological study was conducted by scholars Robert D. Putnam and David E. Campbell and yields valuable insight to the nature and social effects of American religion.


Among the study’s findings related to Latter-day Saints are the following:

  • Mormons are among the most devout religious groups in the country.
    The American Grace study assessed a composite measure of “religiosity” that measured individuals’ levels of religious observance, the strength of their religious convictions about God and their faith, and the degree to which they feel their religion is personally important. As a group, Mormons registered a high level of “religiosity” (American Grace, 23-24).
  • Mormons are among those most likely to keep their childhood faith as adults.
    In an age of American religion where people often depart from the religion of their upbringing and where switching between religions is becoming more common, the study indicates that individuals raised as Latter-day Saints are among those most likely to keep their faith (137-138).
  • Mormons are unusually giving.
    Among the study’s larger conclusions is the fact that, in general, religion in America contributes to civic virtue, altruism, and good neighborliness. Study data, meanwhile, indicate that collectively Mormons are among the most charitable of Americans with their means and time, both in religious and nonreligious causes (452).
  • Mormons are relatively friendly to other religious groups.
    The study also reports that Mormons are among those most friendly toward those of other faiths. Relatively speaking, the United States has not been the scene of deep religious conflicts; it is and has been a place of remarkable religious tolerance and pluralism. Nevertheless, the study’s authors point out that Americans are divided by religion, and hence, American society is susceptible to religious discord. Indeed, American religious (and nonreligious) groups have various feelings about one another. While data suggest that Mormons are among those viewed least positively by many American religious groups, they themselves hold relatively positive views toward members of other faiths, including those outside of Christianity (505-508).
  • Mormons are among the most likely to believe that one true religion exists, but also that those outside their faith can attain salvation or reach “heaven.”
    The scholars behind the study conclude that while many American religions make claims to being exclusively “true,” few religionists in the United States actually believe that “one true religion” exists. Of all American faiths, Mormons are most likely to affirm that there is a “true” faith (546). However, in what might seem a paradox to those unfamiliar with Mormonism, study data also indicate that while many Mormons believe that there is a “true” religion, Mormons are also the most convinced of any group that those outside their faith — including non-Christians — can “go to heaven” or gain salvation (535-537). While this belief is general among American believers, it is, according to the study, strongest among Latter-day Saints.
Robert D. Putnam and David E. Campbell, American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2010).
 
  • Mormons are among the most likely to believe that one true religion exists, but also that those outside their faith can attain salvation or reach “heaven.”
    The scholars behind the study conclude that while many American religions make claims to being exclusively “true,” few religionists in the United States actually believe that “one true religion” exists. Of all American faiths, Mormons are most likely to affirm that there is a “true” faith (546). However, in what might seem a paradox to those unfamiliar with Mormonism, study data also indicate that while many Mormons believe that there is a “true” religion, Mormons are also the most convinced of any group that those outside their faith — including non-Christians — can “go to heaven” or gain salvation (535-537). While this belief is general among American believers, it is, according to the study, strongest among Latter-day Saints.
This is certainly true, if one remembers that the "heaven" of non-Mormons (and of many Mormons as well) are plural, and are more like eternal purgatory, in which souls never see God, never have interaction with God, and for the lower "heavens' never have interaction even with Jesus or their own more noble ancestors and descendants. Their families are severed forever.
 
This is certainly true, if one remembers that the "heaven" of non-Mormons (and of many Mormons as well) are plural, and are more like eternal purgatory, in which souls never see God, never have interaction with God, and for the lower "heavens' never have interaction even with Jesus or their own more noble ancestors and descendants. Their families are severed forever.
Most mormons believe that anything less than the highest degree of the celestial kingdom might as well be hell.
 
  • Mormons are unusually giving.
    Among the study’s larger conclusions is the fact that, in general, religion in America contributes to civic virtue, altruism, and good neighborliness. Study data, meanwhile, indicate that collectively Mormons are among the most charitable of Americans with their means and time, both in religious and nonreligious causes (452).
This, too, is apparent. It would be interesting to compare the amount of giving and serving, of adherents of various denominations, are directed back into their own church and into programs supported by their own church (scouting, welfare farms, dance programs, etc.) and into programs independent of their church (Habitat for Humanity, Voice of Martyrs, Boys and Girls Club, Smile Train, Voices4Freedom, Unbound, etc.).
 
This is certainly true, if one remembers that the "heaven" of non-Mormons (and of many Mormons as well) are plural, and are more like eternal purgatory,

Are you a Mormon?

SInce non-Mormons are not allowed to argue with each other here, I'll assume that you're a Mormon unless I hear otherwise.

Much of Mormon ignorance is based on their lack of understanding of the meaning of "heaven". They don't understand that different languages have different understands of terms.

For instance, in temperate climates, there is only one word for "snow". But in the Inuit language, where snow is a dailiy part of their life, ther are maybe 10-15 terms for "snow", as they have made different terms for it based on texture, water content (eg. wet or "dry"), and other factors.

In Hebrew and Greek, they had a word for that we (very imprecisely) translate as "heaven". But in Hebrew and Greek, those terms have drastically different meanings, which are distinguished in English, but not in the Biblical languages. In both Hebrew and Greek, there are three different connotations:
.
Meaning
Example in Scripture
English
Hebrew
Greek
air​
"birds of the <x>"​
air​
shamayim​
ouranos​
cosmic space​
"stars of the <x>"​
space​
shamayim​
ouranos​
God's abode​
"our Father in <x>"​
heaven​
shamayim​
ouranos​
.
So to rephrase, we have different words in English to distinguish between "sky", "space", and "heaven". In Hebrew and Greek, they don't, and you have to depend on context to determine the meaning.

So when Paul refers to the "tritou ouranou" ("third heaven"), it doesn't surprise us, since there are three different connotations for "ouranos" in Greek, and Paul is referring ot the third one. And in a sense, you can think of them linearly, starting from the surface of the earth. The first "ouranos" is the sky, the second is the cosmic space, and the last one is God's abode, or what we understand with the term, "heaven".

Of course, Joseph Smith was ignorant of Hebrew and Greek.

And as he frequently did, he took one passage out of context, and invented a false doctrine out of it, and in this case it is the "three heavens".

So no, the non-Mormon version of "heaven" will NOT be any kind of "purgatory", but we will spend eternity in the direct presence of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ forever. And FYI, discussion of "non-Mormon" theology is off-topic here, Mormons simply keep bringing up our beliefs to derail discussion away from Mormonism, because they know they can't defend their false beliefs, so they have to try attacking the beliefs of others.

But I agree with your evaluation that some aspects of some "heaven" in Mormonism is INCREDIBLY substandard, and I can understand your comparison of some of the Mormon "heavens" to purgatory.

in which souls never see God, never have interaction with God, and for the lower "heavens' never have interaction even with Jesus

Yes, that would be a problem with the Mormon "heaven" scheme, but not with the "non-Mormon" (which is, again, off-topic).

or their own more noble ancestors and descendants. Their families are severed forever.

Well, there is nothing in Scripture about "maintaining family relationships" in Scripture. And one common error that Mormons make is that marriage ends at death, so it doesn't continue into heaven (Rom. 7:1-2, 1 Cor. 7:39).

Further, heaven isn't about "spending time with family", it's about communing with God, our Creator, Saviour, Lord, and King. What I find sad and pathetic about Mormonism is that they seem to view spending time with God in heaven as some last-minute "afterthought", with their main emphasis on "families are forever", which is unworkable from the get-go. How can yo simultaneously spend eternity with your parents, your children, your siblings, and everyone else in heaven also gets to do so with theirs? Married couples still haven't solved that problem about which in-laws to spend Christmas with, etc.

What is the emphasis supposed to be, regarding God vs. family?:

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

Now, hopefully we can agree that this does not mean we should literally hate our family, but that our love for God should so OUTSHINE our love for our family that it seems like "hate" by comparison.

The fuction of heaven is NOT to be some permanent "family reunion".

The fuction is to spend eternity with God, our Creator, Saviour, Lord, and King.
 
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This, too, is apparent. It would be interesting to compare the amount of giving and serving, of adherents of various denominations, are directed back into their own church and into programs supported by their own church (scouting, welfare farms, dance programs, etc.) and into programs independent of their church (Habitat for Humanity, Voice of Martyrs, Boys and Girls Club, Smile Train, Voices4Freedom, Unbound, etc.).

It would also be interesting to compare what Mormons give now, to what they would give if they weren't coerced into giving and being taught that their eternal life was dependent on how much they gave. Mormons do not "give freely", they give by coercion.

In order to attain the highest heaven, you have to do temple work.
In order to do temple work, you have to have a valid temple recommend.
In order to have a valid temple recommend, you have to be a full tithe-payer.

Basiclaly, you have to PAY for your spot in heaven, if you're a Mormon.

Non-Mormons have been given heaven freely, and so anything we give is FREE, with truly no strings attached.
 
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