on why the bible is a reliable resource

SteveB

Well-known member
Its not something I believe.
That's good to know.
Because that's not how it appears to me.
Ha ha, yes all of that is YOUR view. YOUR interpretation, YOUR acceptance. YOU are the one who thinks it applies to YOU. Of course its YOUR view. Who else is interpreting it for you?
Wow.... you sound like you need to win.
Things that are subject to my views, my interpretation, my acceptance, are subject to confirmation bias.
Things that I read, I take to God, since it's his book, and his claims, so I can ensure that I get a correct view.
So, as God has said---

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.​
8 It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones.​

I learn how to do that, by prayer, reading, applying, and trusting in YHVH's sovereignty, goodness, and truthfulness to continue doing what he said he would---

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.​


This helps work through the problems I have, and gain a clearer understanding.
Especially when Jesus stated

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.​

This gives me the resources I need to work out what the Truth actually is, no longer subject to my own biases, preconceived notions, and opinions. Further working out, and learning to obey what's written, gives clarity, because it allows me to see the flaws in my thinking, and make corrections along the way.

As for what applies to me..... the bible makes it pretty clear--- Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him. Hebrews 5.
So..... it seems pretty clear if I want to have eternal salvation, what Jesus said applies to his followers, would in fact apply to me. As it would to all who seek eternal salvation.

No, you can think what you want. But lets not pretend that your beliefs about your God apply to anyone else -or that what you believe is true outside of your imagination.
If you don't want eternal salvation from sin, death, and the judgment due sin, then you're right. This has absolutely nothing to do with you.
The gospel is after all only for human beings. It's not for animals, plants, insects, or inanimate objects.
They're not under condemnation for sin. Humans are. Jesus bought back creation, and all that inhabits creation.
As we read in Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

So, the day is coming when God will wipe out the existing earth, and heavens, and create a new heavens, and a new earth, so his people may inhabit a pure, and uncorrupted heavens, and earth. And he will dwell among us. We've been instructed to give you the opportunity to be among us. If you don't want eternal salvation, then this will not be yours.
Judgment due sin however will be yours.
Try this, demonstrate that your beliefs are true, demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
Easy. I do this myself daily.

If you want to know this, then learn what Jesus said, and according to Jesus. God, and Jesus will come and make their home with you.

20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”​
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”​
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.​

Jesus set the terms. You have a choice--- what will you do?
He said he'd demonstrate himself as real and knowable to all who keep his words.
I don't know about you, but I can't think of a better way to know someone is real, and knowable than for them to come and live with you.

Keep in mind that failure or refusal (doesn't matter to me) only supports my position that you will or cannot demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
For someone with bias--- that makes perfect sense.
The irony is here that you have just demonstrated that you're not interested in knowing the truth for yourself. You only want someone to throw at you a bunch of words which you can summarily dismiss, because you don't really want to know. So, I leave you with the following proposition....

Take the time to learn what Jesus said.
Do what Jesus said.
Jesus made it clear that if you do so, HE and his Father, God, will come and make their home with you.

It's entirely your choice.
 

Hypatia_Alexandria

Active member
History deniers deny the moon landing and they deny the existence of Jesus.
Not necessarily the two events together.
Enough to know you did not answer the question.
There was no question to answer. I made my points quite clearly.
Just like you did not answer the other question related to Gen. one and two.

Still no answer. What a waste.
Point of information you ignored two of my replies to you on this thread [#152 & #156]
 

bigthinker

Active member
That's good to know.
Because that's not how it appears to me.
Well, its probably easier for you to argue against your strawman than what I actually say, right?
Wow.... you sound like you need to win.
Things that are subject to my views, my interpretation, my acceptance, are subject to confirmation bias.
Things that I read, I take to God, since it's his book, and his claims, so I can ensure that I get a correct view.
How do you determine that your view is correct?
So, as God has said---

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.​
8 It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones.​

I learn how to do that, by prayer, reading, applying, and trusting in YHVH's sovereignty, goodness, and truthfulness to continue doing what he said he would---

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.​


This helps work through the problems I have, and gain a clearer understanding.
That's nice but your understanding of my position isn't very clear.
Especially when Jesus stated

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.​

This gives me the resources I need to work out what the Truth actually is, no longer subject to my own biases, preconceived notions, and opinions. Further working out, and learning to obey what's written, gives clarity, because it allows me to see the flaws in my thinking, and make corrections along the way.

As for what applies to me..... the bible makes it pretty clear--- Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him. Hebrews 5.
So..... it seems pretty clear if I want to have eternal salvation, what Jesus said applies to his followers, would in fact apply to me. As it would to all who seek eternal salvation.
So I contend that ALL of this is nothing more than confirmation bias. You find what you need in scripture to support your position.
And all of that is fine, its just that you haven't given me a reason to care or think that it applies to anything outside of your belief.
I really don't care to hear about what you believe, I want to know which part is factually true or factually reliable and meaningful.
This is what I mean: within the story it is TRUE that Santa lives at the North Pole. But outside of the story there is no evidence of that being factually reliable or meaningful.
And by meaningful I mean useful; that we could go there, see the residence and toy making complex etc.
If you don't want eternal salvation from sin, death, and the judgment due sin, then you're right. This has absolutely nothing to do with you.
I know this is hard to grasp but it isn't that I don't want it, its that I don't believe it; I don't believe that what you say is correct or true.
The gospel is after all only for human beings. It's not for animals, plants, insects, or inanimate objects.
They're not under condemnation for sin. Humans are. Jesus bought back creation, and all that inhabits creation.
As we read in Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Yeah, I don't care what it says in Romans. I only care whether or not you can make a convincing case for why I should care about what it says.
So, the day is coming when God will wipe out the existing earth, and heavens, and create a new heavens, and a new earth, so his people may inhabit a pure, and uncorrupted heavens, and earth. And he will dwell among us. We've been instructed to give you the opportunity to be among us. If you don't want eternal salvation, then this will not be yours.
Judgment due sin however will be yours.
Yeah, I don't find that credible and at this point, I don't believe it.
Easy. I do this myself daily.

If you want to know this, then learn what Jesus said, and according to Jesus. God, and Jesus will come and make their home with you.
Perhaps you glossed over it but I don't believe in Jesus; I don't have a reason to think that things he "said" in the bible have anything to do with anything outside of the story.
20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”​
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”​
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.​

Jesus set the terms. You have a choice--- what will you do?
He said he'd demonstrate himself as real and knowable to all who keep his words.
I don't know about you, but I can't think of a better way to know someone is real, and knowable than for them to come and live with you.
Unfortunately I don't have a spare bedroom. Unless.... Do you think Jesus would pay rent? Do you know if this forum software has a personal messaging feature? If it does, have Jesus PM me.
For someone with bias--- that makes perfect sense.
The irony is here that you have just demonstrated that you're not interested in knowing the truth for yourself. You only want someone to throw at you a bunch of words which you can summarily dismiss, because you don't really want to know. So, I leave you with the following proposition....
Actually, what I want is a reason to think that what you believe is meaningful outside of your belief.
Take the time to learn what Jesus said.
Do what Jesus said.
Jesus made it clear that if you do so, HE and his Father, God, will come and make their home with you.
Yeah I know what he said and no, I don't believe in him.
It's entirely your choice.
I'm sure you don't mean to but you're telling me that I'm more powerful than your God -even with Jesus helping him and that I can thwart Almighty God's plans. Do you want to rethink the "its entirely your choice" bit?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Well, its probably easier for you to argue against your strawman than what I actually say, right?
Yeah, except I'm seeing things that you're saying that you've ignored. So, I don't have a problem with what I see. Especially when you say things you don't realize.
How do you determine that your view is correct?
Action, and results, when tested against the objective.

That's nice but your understanding of my position isn't very clear.
Oh, I don't know. It looks pretty clear to me.
You don't believe that the bible is a reliable document, so you don't believe anything anyone says which supports the veracity of the biblical narrative.



So I contend that ALL of this is nothing more than confirmation bias.
Which I find humorous, because your lack of belief is not based on having verified it. Rather, simply from refusal to do.
The most amusing attribute of confirmation bias is that all you have to do is nothing, and you've confirmed your bias.
We who follow Jesus, we're commanded to do what the bible says, so we can know for ourselves whether or not it's true. That's actually the antithesis of confirmation bias.

You find what you need in scripture to support your position.
Not just scripture. I have however read, and acted on it long enough to know that it's true.
So, I have no problem with my view.
I do however find myself questioning your view, because you've refused to do what is required to know, and continue to claim that by not believing, you've somehow definitively proven it false.
That's a weak position, and has no basis in fact, or reality. It only has validity in your mind.

And all of that is fine, its just that you haven't given me a reason to care or think that it applies to anything outside of your belief.
I'd think that Truth would be enough to care. Furthermore, I'd think the final state of your life would further be enough to know.
So, if you don't care, then why are you wasting your life on an internet forum, arguing with strangers, trying to win an unwinnable argument?
I've found myself wondering if the truth is that people like you don't actually want to know, and are in fact just looking for means and ways to justify yourselves, so you can move on. Otherwise, you'd be taking the time to learn, and then do what Jesus said, so you can actually know.


I really don't care to hear about what you believe, I want to know which part is factually true or factually reliable and meaningful.
EXACTLY.
So, I want to know--- why are you wasting your time here?
When I lived an atheistic life, I didn't care one iota about such matters, and the last place I wanted to be is in an environment where I had to listen to people tell me I was wrong, and needed to deal with it.

This is what I mean: within the story it is TRUE that Santa lives at the North Pole. But outside of the story there is no evidence of that being factually reliable or meaningful.
And by meaningful I mean useful; that we could go there, see the residence and toy making complex etc.
Considering that you just said you don't want to know what part is factually true, reliable, and therefore, meaningful.
You're placing yourself in a position of just adding wrath to your condemnation by continuing to engage in discussion on this topic.
Go out, live your life. It'll be over with soon enough, and you'll wish you would've paid more attention.
I hope to meet you in eternity, so turn to Jesus, before its too late to do anything about it.

I know this is hard to grasp but it isn't that I don't want it, its that I don't believe it; I don't believe that what you say is correct or true.
I'm already aware of this. Yet you continue to expose yourself to us, come to a website dedicated entirely to your salvation, and knowledge of God.
God has said he'll make sure that the knowledge of God will fill the whole earth. You can either benefit from it, or exclude yourself from it. I encourage you to benefit from it. It'd be a pity for you to be so close, and yet exclude yourself from life.


Yeah, I don't care what it says in Romans. I only care whether or not you can make a convincing case for why I should care about what it says.
It's a choice you have to make. God says it matters.
The question becomes--- what's more important to you?
What you think you know, or what you can know?
You're more than welcome to remain ignorant. But I've never once seen where ignorance is a positive state to remain in.


Yeah, I don't find that credible and at this point, I don't believe it.
You've said that several times now.
So, remain in ignorance then. It is after all your life.


Perhaps you glossed over it but I don't believe in Jesus; I don't have a reason to think that things he "said" in the bible have anything to do with anything outside of the story.
Yep. you've stated that several times now.
That is your prerogative. It's your eternity too.


Unfortunately I don't have a spare bedroom. Unless.... Do you think Jesus would pay rent? Do you know if this forum software has a personal messaging feature? If it does, have Jesus PM me.
Why don't you just call on his name. He did say--- whosoever will call upon him shall be saved.

Actually, what I want is a reason to think that what you believe is meaningful outside of your belief.
Then do what Jesus said, and you'll have your own reasons, instead of someone else's which you clearly don't want.


Yeah I know what he said and no, I don't believe in him.
That's your prerogative.


I'm sure you don't mean to but you're telling me that I'm more powerful than your God -even with Jesus helping him and that I can thwart Almighty God's plans. Do you want to rethink the "its entirely your choice" bit?
No. You're only more powerful than God in your own mind.

Jesus made this really clear.

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Do you want to be forced, and held down, or do you want to be freed, so you can choose for yourself?
As some have said before--- God is a gentleman. He's inviting you. He's not going to force you.
 

bigthinker

Active member
Yeah, except I'm seeing things that you're saying that you've ignored. So, I don't have a problem with what I see. Especially when you say things you don't realize.

Action, and results, when tested against the objective.


Oh, I don't know. It looks pretty clear to me.
Myopia
You don't believe that the bible is a reliable document, so you don't believe anything anyone says which supports the veracity of the biblical narrative.




Which I find humorous, because your lack of belief is not based on having verified it. Rather, simply from refusal to do.
The most amusing attribute of confirmation bias is that all you have to do is nothing, and you've confirmed your bias.
We who follow Jesus, we're commanded to do what the bible says, so we can know for ourselves whether or not it's true. That's actually the antithesis of confirmation bias.


Not just scripture. I have however read, and acted on it long enough to know that it's true.
Self reaffirming... how convenient.
So, I have no problem with my view.
I do however find myself questioning your view, because you've refused to do what is required to know, and continue to claim that by not believing, you've somehow definitively proven it false.
Again, another baseless, unsupported assertion.
That's a weak position, and has no basis in fact, or reality. It only has validity in your mind.


I'd think that Truth would be enough to care. Furthermore, I'd think the final state of your life would further be enough to know.
So, if you don't care, then why are you wasting your life on an internet forum, arguing with strangers, trying to win an unwinnable argument?
I've found myself wondering if the truth is that people like you don't actually want to know, and are in fact just looking for means and ways to justify yourselves, so you can move on. Otherwise, you'd be taking the time to learn, and then do what Jesus said, so you can actually know.



EXACTLY.
So, I want to know--- why are you wasting your time here?
When I lived an atheistic life, I didn't care one iota about such matters, and the last place I wanted to be is in an environment where I had to listen to people tell me I was wrong, and needed to deal with it.


Considering that you just said you don't want to know what part is factually true, reliable, and therefore, meaningful.
You're placing yourself in a position of just adding wrath to your condemnation by continuing to engage in discussion on this topic.
Go out, live your life. It'll be over with soon enough, and you'll wish you would've paid more attention.
I hope to meet you in eternity, so turn to Jesus, before its too late to do anything about it.


I'm already aware of this. Yet you continue to expose yourself to us, come to a website dedicated entirely to your salvation, and knowledge of God.
God has said he'll make sure that the knowledge of God will fill the whole earth. You can either benefit from it, or exclude yourself from it. I encourage you to benefit from it. It'd be a pity for you to be so close, and yet exclude yourself from life.



It's a choice you have to make. God says it matters.
The question becomes--- what's more important to you?
What you think you know, or what you can know?
You're more than welcome to remain ignorant. But I've never once seen where ignorance is a positive state to remain in.



You've said that several times now.
So, remain in ignorance then. It is after all your life.



Yep. you've stated that several times now.
That is your prerogative. It's your eternity too.



Why don't you just call on his name. He did say--- whosoever will call upon him shall be saved.


Then do what Jesus said, and you'll have your own reasons, instead of someone else's which you clearly don't want.



That's your prerogative.



No. You're only more powerful than God in your own mind.

Jesus made this really clear.

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Do you want to be forced, and held down, or do you want to be freed, so you can choose for yourself?
As some have said before--- God is a gentleman. He's inviting you. He's not going to force you.
Steve, I just want to point out that you're failing to make your case; merely asserting your conclusions is not sufficient.
Please explain how your beliefs can be falsified (remember that in order to be "true" beliefs have to falsifiable.)
 
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