One more time - Mormons' belief in how they believe in One God using the Bible only

101G

Well-known member
Given in context, these statements were given to Israel. They were not spoken to the world but his covenant people.
Mormons believe "[Jesus] was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New." He is our Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.
Intresting assessment. so Jesus is God in Flesh, as the Messiah .... correct. meaning the same one person is this correct, yes or No?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
thanks for the reply, one more question, is there any other God beside the Lord JESUS? yes or no.

PICJAG, 101G.
Jesus is Lord, God is His Father.
Also, when Mormons say they can become "gods" see my OP how the term "gods" is defined.
 

101G

Well-known member
Jesus is Lord, God is His Father.
Also, when Mormons say they can become "gods" see my OP how the term "gods" is defined.
thanks for the reply, but did you not say in your OP,
One God
Deut. 4:35,39 "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him. 39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else."
I highlight in red what you posted. now if Jesus is Lord, (GOD), and and Deuteronomy 4:35 states, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."

and the term .... NONE else "Beside" him means no one else present, so How can Jesus be God and there's another God? that's two Gods and that's polytheism

remember, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

looking to hear your answer,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
and the term .... NONE else "Beside" him means no one else present, so How can Jesus be God and there's another God? that's two Gods and that's polytheism

Mormons prefer the phrase, "plural gods", to "polytheism".
They (wrongly) argue that "polytheism" implies worshipping multiple gods, when they claim to only worship one god (the Father) in the name of a different god (Jesus).

But "polytheism" doesn't mean "worship many gods", it simply means, "believe in the existence of many gods". Worshipping many gods would be "polylatria".

The Mormons on CARM are afraid to be as transparent as Joseph Smith was:

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!"
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I highlight in red what you posted. now if Jesus is Lord, (GOD), and and Deuteronomy 4:35 states, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."

Yeah, we've been over this, many times, to no avail. Here is the list I generally share with them:

Deut. 4:35 ... the Lord is God; there is no other besides him
Deut. 4:39 ... the Lord is God... there is no other.
Deut. 32:39 ... and there is no god besides me;
2 Sam. 7:22 ... neither is there any God besides thee, ...
2 Sam. 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD?
1 Kings 8:60 ... the Lord is God; there is no other.
1 Chr. 17:20 ... neither is there any God besides thee, ...
Isa. 44:6 ... I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa. 44:8 ... Is there a God besides me? yea,there is no God; I know not any.
Isa. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God besides me:
Is. 45:21 ... there is no God else besides me;
Isa 45:22 ... for I am God, and there is  none else.
Isa. 46:9 ... for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Mark 12:32 … for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
1 Cor. 8:4 … and that there is none other God but one.


They have a few ways of dealing with these passage:

1) Summarily claim they accept those passages, but don't explain why. (Mormons have a belief that the Bible is often "not translated correctly", so they can believe they have a right to ignore passages, by simply assuming they're "not translated correctly".

2) Some Mormons will ASSUME that these are merely relative statements, referring, "To you Israelites, there is only one God you should concern yourself with", even though none of those passages actually say that. They refer back to 1 Cor. 8:6, "FOR US there is one God..."

3) Some Mormons interpret "beside me" as meaning, "alongside me", even though we both know that's not what the underlying Hebrew. The underlying Hebrew means, "other than".


Some other considerations, to show you the terrible nature of Mormon interpretation:

1) Mormons defend their belief in "plural gods" by citing 1 Cor. 8:5, "There by gods many", ignoring that the "gods many" here is referring to IDOLS, and that Paul says in the previous verse, v.4, that "there is NONE other God but one". They refer to Ps. 82:6, which is actually about corrupt human judges, and John 10:34 (where Jesus is simply quoting Ps. 82).

2) They also like to quote the ECF's, misrepresenting them, and ignoring when the ECF's teach that ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS. They also ignore the ECF's when they teach other doctrines contrary to Mormonism (such as salvation by faith alone).
 

101G

Well-known member
Mormons prefer the phrase, "plural gods", to "polytheism".
They (wrongly) argue that "polytheism" implies worshipping multiple gods, when they claim to only worship one god (the Father) in the name of a different god (Jesus).

But "polytheism" doesn't mean "worship many gods", it simply means, "believe in the existence of many gods". Worshipping many gods would be "polylatria".

The Mormons on CARM are afraid to be as transparent as Joseph Smith was:

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!"
Mormons prefer the phrase, "plural gods", to "polytheism".
They (wrongly) argue that "polytheism" implies worshipping multiple gods, when they claim to only worship one god (the Father) in the name of a different god (Jesus).
thanks for your assessment, but it is not worst having two Gods and worshiping both as ONE? that's sounds familiar.

polytheism, the belief in or worship of more than one god. ..... you can google it.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yeah, we've been over this, many times, to no avail. Here is the list I generally share with them:

Deut. 4:35 ... the Lord is God; there is no other besides him
Deut. 4:39 ... the Lord is God... there is no other.
Deut. 32:39 ... and there is no god besides me;
2 Sam. 7:22 ... neither is there any God besides thee, ...
2 Sam. 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD?
1 Kings 8:60 ... the Lord is God; there is no other.
1 Chr. 17:20 ... neither is there any God besides thee, ...

Isa. 44:6 ... I  am  the first, and I  am  the last; and  besides me  there is  no God.
Isa. 44:8 ... Is there a God besides me?  yea, there is  no God; I know not  any.
Isa. 45:5  I  am  the LORD, and  there is  none else,  there is  no God besides me:
Is. 45:21 ... there is no God else besides me;
Isa 45:22 ... for I am  God, and  there is  none else.

Isa. 46:9 ... for  I  am  God, and  there is  none else;  I am  God, and  there is  none like me,
Mark 12:32 … for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
1 Cor. 8:4 … and that there is none other God but one.

@Aaron32, the fact that I've quoted this list of Bible quotes so many times, and you still didn't know which verses in Isa. 43-46 I was referring to, suggests that you don't even read my posts.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
thanks for your assessment, but it is not worst having two Gods and worshiping both as ONE? that's sounds familiar.

I truly have no idea what you're asking.

polytheism, the belief in or worship of more than one god. ..... you can google it.

PICJAG, 101G.

Okay, so are you now an apologist for Mormonism?
As YOUR OWN DEFINITION attests, "polytheism" can be based ONLY on the the belief that more than one god exists. One who holds to polytheism can either worship only one of them (ie. "henotheism"), or worship many of them (as the ancient Greeks and Romans did).

The conjunction "or" prior to "worship" in the definition means that they don't have to worship all the gods they believe in.
 
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Aaron32

Well-known member
thanks for the reply, but did you not say in your OP,
When mormons say they will become "gods" (D&C 132:15-20), that is referring to "gods" in terms of authority received, Being "kings and priests" unto the Most High God - (D&C 76: 52-62) just as Jesus justified calling himself a Son of God (Psalms 82:6).
I highlight in red what you posted. now if Jesus is Lord, (GOD), and and Deuteronomy 4:35 states, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him."

and the term .... NONE else "Beside" him means no one else present, so How can Jesus be God and there's another God?

Deuteronomy 4:25-31 gave predictions of the nation’s destruction by exile if they fell into idolatry, Deuteronomy 4:32-40, explains how Jehovah is unique in comparison to the other "gods" being worshipped.

In the next chapter, they are reminded again
6 ¶ I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

that's two Gods and that's polytheism
Jews at that time were polylatristic, they believed in the existence of other gods. Else, given vs 7 quoted above, what other "gods" were being referred to?

remember, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
Yes. That could again be making the same point in Deut.4:35.
Given in the context of the Shema, it could also mean the Lord is priority # 1 to govern our lives.
It also doesn't violate the interpretation that the Father and the Son are one in purpose.

In other words, considering John 1:1:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
means
John 1:1 In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.

Under this interpretation:
The the OT and NT would be congruent that "no man cometh unto the Father except by [Jesus]"
This interpretation preserves the principle that God is unchanging.
It eliminates the contradiction in Jesus statement "No one has seen God at any time".
 
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