Only pray to God

[romishpopishorganist]

You are able to ask for their prayers in silence. Thus, by asking them you are praying to them.

Your questions ignore the fact that it takes the Heart-Knower of all to be the recipient of such communication/prayer (cf. 1 Kings 8:38-39).

Then we disagree on what it means to ask people to pray for us.

And that is fine. If you believe that asking the saints to pray for you constitutes sin, then don't do it. Catholics do not see it that way so we do.

 

[Fred]

1 Kings 8:38-39 is still being avoided.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

1 Kings 8:38-39 is still being avoided.

No. I already explain that.

You just don't like my explanation.

 

[Fred]

No. I already explain that.

You just don't like my explanation.

Because it does not accord with what the Bible teaches. Anyone can give an explanation.

Ask someone alive on the earth today to pray for you without speaking to them or letting them know by writing, etc. and see if they know what you are asking about.

 

[mica]

Fred said:
You are able to ask for their prayers in silence. Thus, by asking them you are praying to them.

Your questions ignore the fact that it takes the Heart-Knower of all to be the recipient of such communication/prayer (cf. 1 Kings 8:38-39).

Then we disagree on what it means to ask people to pray for us.

you believe what the rcc says, not what God says.

And that is fine. If you believe that asking the saints to pray for you constitutes sin, then don't do it. Catholics do not see it that way so we do.

right, catholics don't see the truth of scripture, but instead the lies of the rcc.

that's why catholics are catholic, not Christians. your hearts are closed to His word, His truth.

your 'faith' is in the rcc, not in Christ.

 

[mica]

Fred said:
1 Kings 8:38-39 is still being avoided

No. I already explain that.

You just don't like my explanation.

you mean that of the rcc...

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Because it does not accord with what the Bible teaches. Anyone can give an explanation.

Ask someone alive on the earth today to pray for you without speaking to them or letting them know by writing, etc. and see if they know what you are asking about.

Please be more accurate:

What you mean to say is that it is not in accord with what YOU think the Bible teaches. And that is fine. You are free to read the Bible, interpret it for yourself as you see fit.

What I fail to understand is why your interpretation of the Bible should matter to me who does not interpret it the way you do.

 

[mica]

Correct; prayer is in the silence of one's heart.

That does not change anything. While we use in common parlance "We pray 'to' Saint X or Y" we are asking for their prayers. We also understand that any prayers granted is only through the will of God.

Please tell me: who better to pray for us than those who behold the face of God day and night?

living believers as scripture tells us.

Is there someone more suited to pray for us than those who look upon God as He is?

you don't know who those people are. you go against His word in doing that. you follow words of man instead of God.

why should He hear your prayers that are contrary to His word?

Cain thought his choice of a sacrifice was better than what God required. how'd that work out for Cain?

 

[mica]

Please be more accurate:

What you mean to say is that it is not in accord with what YOU think the Bible teaches. And that is fine. You are free to read the Bible, interpret it for yourself as you see fit.

says someone who believes it says what a false teacher tells him it says. can't read and understand it for himself.

gee thx. do you think any believer anywhere was just waiting for your ok on it?

What I fail to understand is why your interpretation of the Bible should matter to me who does not interpret it the way you do.

why should your 2nd hand interpretation mean anything to someone who is His? it isn't even your own. we have His truth, we go straight to His word.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Please be more accurate:

What you mean to say is that it is not in accord with what YOU think the Bible teaches. And that is fine. You are free to read the Bible, interpret it for yourself as you see fit.

What I fail to understand is why your interpretation of the Bible should matter to me who does not interpret it the way you do.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

https://forums.carm.org/javascript:void(0)
Philippians 4:6 6Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. Case closed!!!!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

https://forums.carm.org/javascript:void(0)
Philippians 4:6 6Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. So to whom are we to present our prayers? Case closed!!!

 

[mica]

Fred said:
Because it does not accord with what the Bible teaches. Anyone can give an explanation.

Ask someone alive on the earth today to pray for you without speaking to them or letting them know by writing, etc. and see if they know what you are asking about.

Please be more accurate:

iow, plz change your beliefs to agree with what the rcc teaches.

What you mean to say is that it is not in accord with what YOU think the Bible teaches. And that is fine. You are free to read the Bible, interpret it for yourself as you see fit.

What you mean to say is - i don't understand scripture unless perverted thru the eyes, ears and hardened heart of catholicism.

What I fail to understand is why your interpretation of the Bible should matter to me who does not interpret it the way you do.

What you fail to understand - is scripture.

you don't interpret scripture - you just believe whatever the rcc tells you it means.

He isn't priority in your heart or you would have that desire in your heart to read, study, research and understand His word.

 

[balshan]

Please be more accurate:

What you mean to say is that it is not in accord with what YOU think the Bible teaches. And that is fine. You are free to read the Bible, interpret it for yourself as you see fit.

What I fail to understand is why your interpretation of the Bible should matter to me who does not interpret it the way you do.

No the poster was accurate and can one really be more accurate. Something is either accurate or not. Accurate means free from error according to Merriam.

Seriously it is your choice to follow the false church and their false interpretations using made up meanings for words, twisting words, adding to scripture, going beyond and ignoring scripture. But do not expect others to bow down to the false gods of the RCC.

 

[balshan]

Look this could be easily solved. Just tell us when Jesus said to pray to a dead person (no word games please)?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Look this could be easily solved. Just tell us when Jesus said to pray to a dead person (no word games please)

How about this:

Scripture teaches prayer to the saints as much as it teaches Sola Scriptura.

 

[Mik]

Look this could be easily solved. Just tell us when Jesus said to pray to a dead person (no word games please)?

He will never give a direct answer. You will get word games or dodgeball perhaps. He is really good at playing those games.

 

[balshan]

How about this:

Scripture teaches prayer to the saints as much as it teaches Sola Scriptura.

Once again you would be WRONG. No how about just end the problem who else did Jesus say to pray to? Jesus is our teacher. It is easy to solve prayers to the saints.

These verses support sola scriptura, when it is properly understood, which RCs do not do. And this is just a few of the many.

Rom 10:17

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Acts 17:11

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

This passage is clear test anything we are told about God/the message etc against scripture. RCC praying to saints fails this test, sola scriptura does not.

2 thess 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
Now we can be assured that the apostles spoken word would not contradict their written word.

2 Tim 3:16,17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

It does not say all words of man are breathed out by God.

1 Cor 4:6

I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

It is clear scripture is the guide or rule which man cannot go beyond, yet the RCC goes beyond scripture.

2 tim 3:15

And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Proverbs 30: 5+

Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Not every word of the RCC proves true at all, in fact, we have evidence the RCC lies.

Deut 4:2

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

deut12:32

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Mark 7:13

thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Rev 22:18+
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Whether you like it or not all these verses support sola scriptura. Scripture is our guide and if anything does not align with it then it is suspect.

2 Peter 3:14+

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction

Also Peter supported Paul's writings and that he writes the same way as he speaks. Yet the RCC ignores the writings of Paul especially on his requirements for leaders and their behaviour.

Whether you like it or not all these verses support sola scriptura. Scripture is our guide and if anything does not align with it then it is suspect.

 

[mica]

balshan said:
Look this could be easily solved. Just tell us when Jesus said to pray to a dead person (no word games please)

How about this:

iow, you have no scriptural support for that false rcc teaching.

Scripture teaches prayer to the saints as much as it teaches Sola Scriptura.

Jesus gives scriptural support for ss everytime He says 'it is written / have you not read '.

what is the Sword of the Spirit? catholics will claim they have the Holy Spirit but their posts / beliefs show that they don't.

catholics disagree with Jesus Himself.

do you know what SS means?

do you know what the gospel is? you never answer that question. why is that?

 

[balshan]

iow, you have no scriptural support for that false rcc teaching.


Jesus gives scriptural support for ss everytime He says 'it is written / have you not read '.

what is the Sword of the Spirit? catholics will claim they have the Holy Spirit but their posts / beliefs show that they don't.

catholics disagree with Jesus Himself.

do you know what SS means?

do you know what the gospel is? you never answer that question. why is that?

Let us be honest you need to be blind not to see scriptural support for sola scriptura. And the scriptural support strongly supports praying to God, the Lord or Jesus.

As one poster pointed out Phil 4:6

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

supported by other verses:

Paul prayed to God and taught us to pray:

Roms 15:20+

I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. Pray that I may be rescued from the unbelievers in Judea and that my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed. The God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Also, our teacher Jesus taught us to pray it started our Father. Not our Father, Sarah, Moses etc. He is clear pray to the Father. Other places when he refers to prayer it is prayers to the Father.

John 17 records a prayer of Jesus:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus said:

Matt 6:9

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,

1 John 5:14

This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

The He is God, just to make sure there is no confusion.

John 9:31

We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

Is 65:24

It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

Again the I is God.

Ps 143:10

Teach me to do Your will,
For You are my God;
Let Your good Spirit lead me on level ground.

1 Peter 3:12

“For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous,
And His ears attend to their prayer,
But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil

Jer 33:3

Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.”

In scripture God wants us to pray to Him, it is clear Jesus tells us to pray to Our Father, there is no indication that God listens to or answers prayers to anyone else other than Him. I am happy to follow Jesus.

If an RC can put this problem to bed by producing evidence that Jesus told us to pray to someone other than God, or provide a prayer by Peter when he prayed to Mary or Stephen. Otherwise stop pretending it is okay to pray to the dead (no word games).