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Bonnie

Super Member
Aaron, watch the Video in post #606 again, or if you haven’t yet.

He (Nelson) says clearly, with no hesitation that he speaks for God, and as God loves the child, he to also does…. equating it is the same breath.

This has nothing to do with counseling on survival storage or family home evening as you asserted. These kids look to this man, as God. The video is about following God Aaron, it is about following a man, who speaks for God.

If we take it further, we know he has a second anointing which according to LDS thought his exaltation is assured; or in other words he is a God already jr class.

I know this rubs you the wrong way Aaron, as it does me in a huge way, but it is LDS theology in video, real time.

Jeremiah 16:20 is a interesting verse in context to my point…Mormonism here make these men Gods. It is nothing more in my opinion as modern idolatry.

“Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?”

This video below makes me ill…it is basically mind control. Watch it from begging to end…you wonder why so many of us were screwed up, this is a perfect example.


Think hard on this video and its message to 5 and 6 year olds.

I am not joking, but making a point you as a trek fan will understand…The Morg collective in action.…”resistance if futile!”
Looks as if the song is equating the LDS prophets with the true prophets from the Bible....but their "prophets" unfortunately DID lead its membership astray--look at the "Adam as God" doctrine BYoung taught, which caused much division in the LDS church and was quietly dropped after Young's death. Should anyone in the LDS church have "followed the prophet" when Young was actively teaching that doctrine?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I don't think the Prophets intend to lead anyone astray.
No, but the LDS prophets do so, however unintentionally. False doctrines are false doctrines, whether they are taught by those who know they are false, or think they are true.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Hmmm then my Temple prep teacher must have been a liar.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
This kind of statement really cracks me up. Our critics assume that anyone that tells them something that might not be true is a liar. :rolleyes:

I liar is a person who knows better and tries to present something that they know is not true as the truth.

Definition from a dictionary which you all should learn to use - "a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation."

If the person doesn't know better they aren't lying. You would need to prove that your "temple prep teacher" knew that what they were telling you was false. It could be that they just didn't know better.

Further, I think it's funny that you all don't know who the father of Jesus Christ is, especially since you all think that the Holy Ghost and God the Father AND Jesus Christ are the same being. In that case, Jesus is his own father. :rolleyes:
 

Markk

Active member
Looks as if the song is equating the LDS prophets with the true prophets from the Bible....but their "prophets" unfortunately DID lead its membership astray--look at the "Adam as God" doctrine BYoung taught, which caused much division in the LDS church and was quietly dropped after Young's death. Should anyone in the LDS church have "followed the prophet" when Young was actively teaching that doctrine?
They are equating them with Christ. Basically the church creates a messiah syndrome. See link below

What is ironic, yet very true… just read the conversations I have with Aaron and especially BoJ, once a prophet dies, their council is basically worthless if it even dares to scratch their testimony.

The church, seems to have a set of unwritten rules on how to gauge a prophets value…it would go something like this:

1.Follow always; he is above reproach. (Edit…it is okay to say he got a few things wrong, but never define what they are. he must als whys be protected)
Joseph Smith

2.Pretend to follow; *
Brigham Young

3.Follow emotionally and symbolically…kinda like Mohammad Ali in his post boxing life. **
The living prophet

4. Old news, “Caution…break glass and use their words only when required. “ ***
The dead prophet

5.See #4
Biblical prophets and apostles

6. Never ever question a Nephit prophet.
Book of Mormon Prophets


* He is an embarrassment. Was a dictator who’s exclusive doctrines have mostly all been denounced. But he is the face of Utah Mormonism, he is Utah.
** Nelson‘s major legacy will be removing the name and term “Mormon”…at least while he is alive, it will most like assimilate back in. Most every Mormon I know or have read about is pretty much over that nonsense. Especially those that had to pay money to change web sites and letter heads at thier expense. I am sure FAIR MORMON was not happy as well.
*** Hold firm to major manifestos and proclamations only, all else can be rejected.

In regards to Apostles…they can be trumped at any moment at any time...they are all expendable.

 

Fenuay

Well-known member
Again, I don't know what you think you are trying to say. Let me ask you a question on point from your original question. Did I answer it?

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
This kind of statement really cracks me up. Our critics assume that anyone that tells them something that might not be true is a liar. :rolleyes:

I liar is a person who knows better and tries to present something that they know is not true as the truth.

Definition from a dictionary which you all should learn to use - "a person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who deceives by false report or representation."

If the person doesn't know better they aren't lying. You would need to prove that your "temple prep teacher" knew that what they were telling you was false. It could be that they just didn't know better.
Why allow misinformed Temple prep teachers since the Temple is extremely important and vital to the covenants necessary for salvation. And besides it was in the temple prep manual.

Further, I think it's funny that you all don't know who the father of Jesus Christ is, especially since you all think that the Holy Ghost and God the Father AND Jesus Christ are the same being. In that case, Jesus is his own father. :rolleyes:
I do not believe this part of what you claim we all believe.
 

Markk

Active member
No one has said that their council is "basically worthless" if they're dead. :rolleyes: That's clearly not true since we consistently refer to past presidents.


You wrote…

I agree. Follow the prophet means follow the prophet. I don't believe that means, let the prophet dictate what you believe or think. I also believe it means follow the living prophet and not follow dead prophets.

You can try to wiggle out of the context of what I wrote. But the church allows continuing revelation, and what a prophet (or apostle, who is a prophet according to LDS theology) says today, might be a total false teaching tomorrow. I can give you countless examples. I can give you examples of your ignoring their teachings and council that is paste.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
A funny true story… we to a regional wrestling tournament in high school, sponsored by the church. We went up north in a motor home and stayed the night at the stake center parking lot.

In the morning our coaches got up and were playing mr mom, and made breakfast for us and made everyone a cup of Postum. After few sips our head coach, who was a former bishop just got a disgusted look and his face and dumped (threw) the Postum on the parking lot and said “this tastes like crap”…everyone in suit started cracking up and we all dumped our cups.

My mom drank it and I don’t know how. I’m tempted to buy some just to see if I would like it 45 years after last trying it?

No absolutely not, you will not like Postum!
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Yes they describe the process, and these “speculations” are teachings.
No kidding. They are not indicators of sexual relations to produce spirit babies.
In context with the plan of salvation, progression, the eternal family, and the Law of Eternal Progression.
I've already demonstrated you don't understand the law of progression. Eternal families actually have real physical children. They don't give birth to spirits.
The context demands a subject of a eternal father and mother
No. It doesn't. Maybe you should re-read my post. The mother and father in spiritual rebirth is symbolic, it is not sexual.
Your is a speculation in that you can’t back it up with any LDS teaching, while I have given you clear teachings the teach a literal birth.
Your speculation isn't backed up with LDS teachings either. Try showing us one LDS teaching that states that spirit babies are produced through sexual relations. :rolleyes:
Show me one LDS teaching that compare a spirit birth in th preexistence with Nicodemus and being Born Anew as in the Bible.
Right there in John 3:6 Flesh is born of flesh, spirit is born of the spirit.

What are we when we are resurrected? Flesh or spirit? What are we now? Flesh or spirit? What does the flesh now beget? If the flesh now begets flesh, then it is logical, that flesh after the resurrection will beget flesh.

I'm still waiting for you to show me any LDS teaching that states that God had sex in order to produce spirit babies.
Or as Christ depicted as a husband is what these GA and teaching manual mean when the teach this like this…literal means literal,
I have to ask, are we literally the sons and daughters of God now? Is an adopted son or daughter literally a child of the parents who adopted them? We can be literal children and not be biological children. Your unwillingness to see the connection is simply born out of your animus. Of course, you can't be wrong. As I stated, if God was "literally, biologically" the father of every single one of us, we'd all have very similar features, but we don't. We actually look like our "literal biological" human parents. This is common sense. You might need a GA to explain it to you, but I don't.
This quote is not in one modern teaching manual, but in two modern manuals, and on LDS . Org.

God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335). And Gospel Principle chapter 2 (LDS .org)
And again, I have no problem with that quote. It contains zero information that might lead one to believe that we become sons and daughter of God only through sexual relations. When you find a GA who said it was through sexual relations, then you might have a foot to stand on but so far, you have nothing.
You are simply making stuff up that has no place or teaching in the LDS church
You are simply making stuff up that has no place or teachings in the LDS church. See how that works?
There is absolutly no teaching I know of that being born to heavenly parents is a symbolic covenant…CFR or stop with these speculations
There is absolutely no teaching that I know of that being born to heavenly parents is through sexual relations... CFR or stop with these speculations. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Let me catch my breath.... See how that works?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
When a fallen world, it is inhabited by fallen beings ; when a redeemed world, it is inhabited by celestial beings, redeemed from the grave, and glorified, and made like unto the God who created and redeemed them, whose sons they are, and henceforth they are Gods, ordained to do the works appertaining to Gods ; and as their Father God has done before them, so will they do. Heaven, then, is a redeemed glorified world, inhabited by the Gods, and by their sons and daughters, who are the fruits of their own loins.

"The Father of Spirits," having filled one of the celestial kingdoms with his own Sons and Daughters— the fruit of his own loins, gave commandment unto His " First Born " to organize, out of the eternal elements, another world.

Uh huh. Where do you see that these sons and daughters are spirits in this quote?

Also, I guess you decided not to provide the reference for your quote this time. Getting skiddish now?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Now your quoting "The Seer" which was openly condemned by the First Presidency. You've strayed from your own line of reasoning. We're either going to go by sanctioned doctrinal sources or we're not.
Figures. I knew there was a reason for hiding the source.
 

Markk

Active member
No kidding. They are not indicators of sexual relations to produce spirit babies.
They are…begat means begat, Trees beget Trees, monkeys beget monkeys, people beget people, and Gods beget Gods. And spirits beget spirits.
Read the book or Mormon and Bible genealogy and beget means sexual generation, without saying the word sex, which is what BY and others GA have taught.
I've already demonstrated you don't understand the law of progression. Eternal families actually have real physical children. They don't give birth to spirits.

LOL where. Show me in any LDS teaching manual where what I conveyed, with cf, it is not a clear LDS teaching.

What you write above is beyond nonsense In a LDS context.

Eternal families are exalted families in the final estate, if they make “Eternal life.” They are beings with exalted celestial bodies of flesh and bone, who have been seal together for eternity. That is a definition of a LDS “eternal family”…you simply have no idea what LDS theology demands.

The spirit children…who were begotten, born, reared to maturity, organized in the whom of HM, etc…are spirits, in the “pre-existence” and “spirit world”…that is why it is and are given a mortal tabranacle and then have to go and prove themselves worthy in order t live eternally as a family as a “eternal family.”

Anyone in a eternal family is either a God or Goddess (HF and a HM), and they will in turn beget, give birth, raise to maturity spirit children whom in return will receive a mortal tabernacle for their already organized and begotten spirit, and their children will attempt to prove themselves worthy in order to return back to them.

If a child does not prove themselves worthy, they will be assigned a lower estate or kingdom, apart from their celestial brothers and sisters and parents.

I will be more that happy to go through this with you…I encourage you to reject it, but equally encourage you to take the time to understand what LDS theology teaches in regards to the plan of salvation.

 

Markk

Active member
Uh huh. Where do you see that these sons and daughters are spirits in this quote?

Also, I guess you decided not to provide the reference for your quote this time. Getting skiddish now?

All people according to LDS theology are literal children of HF, in the pre-mortal life. If up don’t understand this basic teaching you might want to sit in on primary lessons (LOL sorry I couldn’t resist).

If you have been following I was quoting Pratt, and from the Seer…here is another teaching from the apostle, in the same periodical.

112. We have in this article on preexistence traced man back to his origen in the heavenly world as an infant spirit; we have shown that this spirit was begotten and born by celestial parents long anterior to the formation of this creation. We have shown that the great family of spirits had a probation and trial before they came here—that a third part of them fell and were cast out of Heaven and were deprived offleshly bodies; while the remainder have come forth in their successive generations to people this globe: we have shown that, by keeping this their second estate, they will be perfected, glorified, and made Gods like unto their Father God by whom their spirits were begotten. The dealing of God towards his children from the time that they are first born in Heaven, through all their successive stages of existence, until they are redeemed, perfected, and made Gods, is a pattern after which all other worlds are dealt with. All Gods act upon the same great general principles ; and thus, the course of each God is one eternal round. There will, of course, be a variety in all His works, but there will be no great deviations from the genera] laws which He has ordained. The creation, fall, and redemption of all future worlds with their inhabitants will be conducted upon the same general plan; so that when one is learned, the great fundamental principles of the science of world-making, world-governing, and world-redemption, will be understood. 113.

I understand to you he is a dead prophet and apostle, but above agrees with what the church teaches today. See post 659 and we can go through the plan of salvation.

LOL…You can question my motives, what I believe and why I believe it, but to question me not being clear in my quotes, coming from one that can’t back up most of what they assert with a LDS teaching….
 
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