Orange Bowl

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
The OP isn't really about sports, LHA

It's about the hollowness of being granted something undeserved
Better yet, it's about the dignity of having deservedly earned something

Specifically, to our Christian friends, the OP speaks to the hypocrisy of an opposition to a football team being awarded a championship that has not been earned on the field - while, at the same time, a celebration of Jesus Christ awarding salvation through victory over sin that has not been earned in life
I know - sorry - I was trying to be clever and it fell flat - my bad. I need more coffee before I post :)
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
I know - sorry - I was trying to be clever and it fell flat - my bad. I need more coffee before I post :)
Nothing to apologize for!

You made some interesting points...sports, and football in particular, really is tribalistic
Militaristic even...

Football is oftentimes compared to war

Us vs them
Those in a different uniform are the enemy
Defending our turf / territory
Advancing upon their turf / territory
Battling for extra yardage
Field general
Rifle for an arm
Shotguns
Firing bullets
Throwing bombs
Knifing through the line
Being sacked

Lots of militaristic terms and notions and concepts involved in football


I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though...

Look at it this way, perhaps football is a healthy and nondeadly outlet for the aggression that might otherwise find expression in war?
 

Lt. Columbo

New Member
why do Christians turn around and regard it as a positive to be embraced when Jesus grants unwarranted victory over sin and delivers unto His followers the promised land of an eternal life in Heaven that has not been earned?
What if a person wants to be good enough to earn eternal life in heaven but try as he might has failed? Wouldn't it be an act of kindness on God's part to let the poor human in anyway?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Lol. What I've said about in the past stands. Your positions have no basis in theology. They are simply the ravings of an arrogant, and theologically ignorant atheist.

Got it?
I'm thinking a raving madman.
I'm reminded of Billy Preston's song.

Will it go round in circles.
He just keeps going round and round and round.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
ironically, I kept singing that song for a good 30 minutes after I posted the comment last night, and it's still on my mind even now.... melody and all.....

🎼🎡🎡🎡He's got a song that ain't got no melody.
🎼🎡🎡🎡He's got a story that ain't got no morals.
🎼🎡🎡🎡He needs the bad guy to win.... not just once in a while, but all the time.
The insanity goes round in circles...... I need music score emojis here...... πŸŽΌπŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸ“―πŸŽ€
Ah.... not as good as facebook's, but it'll do....
🎼🎡🎡🎡Will it go round in circles? 🎼🎡🎡🎡
🎼🎡🎡🎡Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky!🎼🎡🎡🎡
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Yes. Your "free gift" argument regarding salvation is a straw man. Roman's 6:23 makes that clear.
πŸ€”
Here's a thought.... he's never been given birthday, or christmas gifts, his entire life, or if he was, he was somehow berated by receiving them, and so has taken on the idea that gifts given out of love don't actually exist.
This level of contempt, rage, hate, and spite towards God, and Jesus would then make perfect sense.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Yes. Your "free gift" argument regarding salvation is a straw man. Roman's 6:23 makes that clear.
Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death and that the gift of God is life through Jesus Christ

I say, firstly, that it is immoral to have determined that the wages of sin {i.e. transgression against God} shall be death AND that it is equally immoral to have then chosen to disregard this proclamation and award unearned victory over sin in exchange for praise and worship

It is OBVIOUS that you do not know what a straw man is, Howie!

A straw man is to set up and then argue against a false premise
I am clearly arguing against the premise that you, yourself, attribute to God

You are one confused individual...
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
πŸ€”
Here's a thought.... he's never been given birthday, or christmas gifts, his entire life, or if he was, he was somehow berated by receiving them, and so has taken on the idea that gifts given out of love don't actually exist.
This level of contempt, rage, hate, and spite towards God, and Jesus would then make perfect sense.
You haven't the first clue as to what constitutes a gift, Steve

A gift is something given without an expectation of receiving something in return
A gift is something given without strings attached
Gifts are unconditional expressions of love that come from the heart - not selfish transactions designed to get something in return

God's salvation is NOT a gift because God demands that we be like you and stop thinking for ourselves and trusting in ourselves before He will grant it!
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
ironically, I kept singing that song for a good 30 minutes after I posted the comment last night, and it's still on my mind even now.... melody and all.....

🎼🎡🎡🎡He's got a song that ain't got no melody.
🎼🎡🎡🎡He's got a story that ain't got no morals.
🎼🎡🎡🎡He needs the bad guy to win.... not just once in a while, but all the time.
The insanity goes round in circles...... I need music score emojis here...... πŸŽΌπŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸŽ΅πŸ“―πŸŽ€
Ah.... not as good as facebook's, but it'll do....
🎼🎡🎡🎡Will it go round in circles? 🎼🎡🎡🎡
🎼🎡🎡🎡Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky!🎼🎡🎡🎡
You've got nothing, Steve
Nothing from nothing...
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You haven't the first clue as to what constitutes a gift, Steve
I'm confident you believe that.
Considering that I've been married to the same woman for over 11000 days, I think I have a very good idea what constitutes a gift.
She's given herself to me each and every day, learning that I'm not the guy I'd hoped I'd be, and still believes in me, trusts me, recognizing her own frailties, etc....
I'd say we both have a great idea of what a gift is.


A gift is something given without an expectation of receiving something in return
A gift is something given without strings attached
Gifts are unconditional expressions of love that come from the heart - not selfish transactions designed to get something in return
I think you have an exaggerated idea of what a gift is.
I've given myself to my wife, and she expects me to continue to give myself to her. I know I expect her to continue to give herself to me.
As she's given herself to me, she has a right to expect me to reciprocate.

I think it's you who doesn't understand what a gift of relationship is.
I've gifted my "friendship" to you, but you keep abusing, brutalizing, violating, and mistreating that "friendship." Leaving me to believe that you have no concept of the idea of a gift, and its importance, and the nature of it.


God's salvation is NOT a gift because God demands that we be like you and stop thinking for ourselves and trusting in ourselves before He will grant it!
Love is a gift. It doesn't cost you anything to be given that love.
Your engagement in love, costs.... you.

If you value the love given to you, it'll cost your ideas of yourself, your ideas of the other, it'll cost your time, your investment, your treating them with dignity, respect, being honest, in your views of them, and their views of you, and your treatment of them.

both parties must give themselves over to that relationship, lock, stock, and barrell, for it to have the meaning love is designed to possess.

I don't get to disrespect my wife. I don't get to fool around on her, and expect her to be ok with it. I don't get to give her gifts, and then take them back. I don't get to bully, and verbally abuse her, the way you've abused God, and his people here.....
So.... you definitely have a seriously twisted set of ideas of what a gift of friendship/relationship consists of.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
I'm not the one who needed something.
You still have a song with no melody.
You still have a story with no moral.
You still have .... well.... nothing.
The moral of my song/story:

"To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon another is evil - anything short of that is morally acceptable or, at the very least, morally allowable"


The moral of your song/story:

"You must immediately stop thinking for yourself and replace your own thoughts with God's. You must remove trust from yourself and place it in Him. Doesn't matter that He did/does things that causes your inner, human voice to scream "EVIL!" - you must suppress your own better judgement and bow down to Him in a spineless and quivering manner!"
 
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