Original Sin...

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

If you don't accept it; why not?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a Fundamental part concerning the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" dealt out because of the Fall of Man, which are a Generational Curse...
 
Last edited:

Slyzr

Well-known member
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a big part in the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" of the Fall of Man which are a Generational Curse...

It's a big debate.

I lean towards these are "their" generations.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

If you don't accept it; why not?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a big part in the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" of the Fall of Man which are a Generational Curse...

Regarding generational curses .....

Good point.

What do you think about those going away in the 7th generation?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Regarding generational curses .....

Good point.

What do you think about those going away in the 7th generation?
That's an issue I was going to raise, because I know people will point out that Generational Curses were established but dispelled later in the Bible. Yet Christianity doesn't allow for the Abrogation of Biblical Teachings. An example of a Generational Curse which was not Abrogated, but consists; is Pain in Childbirth. Biblically speaking, this is an Unconditional Consequence and a Generational Curse due to the Fall of Man, that has never been dispelled...

Do you agree?

Do you like talking to me? if so, I like to take a serious approach; and not a silly approach. Your question seems genuine...
 
Last edited:

Stephen

Well-known member
I reject the doctrine and the correlaries entirely.

As for the curses, the earth is cursed, and the serpent is cursed. Adam and the woman are not cursed.

As for the "fall", the narrative describes that their spiritual eyes were opened which is an improvement from the previous state, and they realized they were naked, which again is an improvement from not realizing they were naked. They fell upwards according to the narrative.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I reject the doctrine and the correlaries entirely.

As for the curses, the earth is cursed, and the serpent is cursed. Adam and the woman are not cursed.

As for the "fall", the narrative describes that their spiritual eyes were opened which is an improvement from the previous state, and they realized they were naked, which again is an improvement from not realizing they were naked. They fell upwards according to the narrative.
Stephen, why do you believe that Adam and Eve were not Cursed? I just Posted a response in Post #4 about how they were Cursed...
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
That's an issue I was going to raise, because I know people will point out that Generational Curses are dispelled later in the Bible. But Christianity doesn't allow for the Abrogation of Biblical Teachings. An example of a Generational Curse which was not Abrogated, but consists; is Pain in Childbirth. Biblically speaking, this is an Unconditional Consequence from the Generational Curse of the Fall of Man that has never been dispelled...

Do you agree?

Do you like talking to me? if so, I like to take a serious approach; and not a silly approach. Your question seems genuine...

Do I agree .... it is something for sure.

I will say this, and it relates to geneational curses.

Visting the sins of their Parents on their children.

Is a hard one to swallow.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
I reject the doctrine and the correlaries entirely.

As for the curses, the earth is cursed, and the serpent is cursed. Adam and the woman are not cursed.

As for the "fall", the narrative describes that their spiritual eyes were opened which is an improvement from the previous state, and they realized they were naked, which again is an improvement from not realizing they were naked. They fell upwards according to the narrative.

Alot of people think it was a fall up.

But the Devil really is a Jerk.

Of course being overly honest is no bargain either.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Adam was made in likeness of the image of God

we who are then born of the will of the flesh
are born in the likeness of fallen Adam

we need to be reborn of the will of God to be made
Children of God

"... the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God." Luke 3:38
 
Last edited:

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Do I agree .... it is something for sure.

I will say this, and it relates to geneational curses.

Visting the sins of their Parents on their children.

Is a hard one to swallow.
Fair enough...

Would you say it's hard to swallow that women today have the Consequences of Adam's Fall visited upon them?
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

If you don't accept it; why not?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a Fundamental part concerning the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" dealt out because of the Fall of Man, which are a Generational Curse...
original sin was adam disobeying God by eating of that fruit (of the satanic tree of kn. of good and evil…actually, a realm and a corrupted nature … of the fallen angels.)

adam ate of that…. and died…that death causing us to leave eden and then many cosmological changes… followed on that… it’s where we are now… in these fleshbodies in a foreign land .. separated from paradise and God. Christ saved us and next will be the rescue of us from here at the change.. or some refer to this as rapture… when we His sons and daughters who are the 144k meet christ on the clouds and are restored… our restoration to eden paradise and to our resurrection body, all happening in a twinkling …

the curse is sin , the flesh … this very space and time .

God knew us His sons and daughters, in eden, before that fallen corrupt time and space, and He is restoring us, and His creation and then some, to how it was before we were lost. Not random abstract people but His people who were in eden - us. And this is why prophets says that this earth will be destroyed …. for it is not His.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
God created us for more than a life of Eternaly
vigorous and ever constant flesh management
(ie. the Law/Old covenant or any Salvation scheme that adds our effort and works to it)
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
That's an issue I was going to raise, because I know people will point out that Generational Curses were established but dispelled later in the Bible. Yet Christianity doesn't allow for the Abrogation of Biblical Teachings. An example of a Generational Curse which was not Abrogated, but consists; is Pain in Childbirth. Biblically speaking, this is an Unconditional Consequence and a Generational Curse due to the Fall of Man, that has never been dispelled...
the curse is this type of body and its procreation, of flesh bodies, (paul’s term), which eden does not have…and never had… and does not need ! ! because it is substandard compared to eden’s perfect physicality…. such, there is no marriage in paradise because male and female are not separated will not be separated and do not need to be joined since they were made for each other by God together…. male and female were made together, not as random separated beings who met and had to go marry….

everything here is corrupt… sex..these bodies, this earth…. but no one wants to know …. being so deeply cursed and instead thinking this world is of God. His creation is perfect. This one is not!!! any genuine soul feels inside how empty is this reality…how lonely for us is this realm of sweat, pain in childbirth, toil and Death…. ‘this world‘ as a term is meant inclusive of the physical cosmos….

He knows who are His souls since before time because eden is before this fallen time. And we were there but now we are in a Foreign Land.

He is getting us out of here …. that’s what rapture is.
 

Stephen

Well-known member
Stephen, why do you believe that Adam and Eve were not Cursed? I just Posted a response in Post #4 about how they were Cursed...

In the narrative, two things were cursed, the serpent and the earth. The curse on the earth is lifted at the end of the story. There is no promise at the end of the story of any curse on Adam and Eve being lifted. Death is described as being "defeated" rather than a curse being lifted.

The woman was told that she would have a mixed blessing of fruitfullness and bearing of many children, and she was going to suffer pain in birthing those children. If this is a "curse", there isn't a place in the bible where this curse is lifted. Similarly she is told that she and women after her would be envious of men and men would rule over women. God said that men and women would do this to each other on the cursed earth, not that this is how God wants it to be. These are simply the consequences of living outside of Eden on the cursed earth away from the tree of life and its healing properties (Rev 22:2) but aren't due to God giving new law.

God's direct actions are limited in the narrative 1) curse the earth, 2) curse the serpent 3) throw man out of the garden 4) set cherubim and swords to keep the way to the garden.

And as we read the narrative, the curse on the earth is lifted at Christ's return and the tree of life will be available once again for the healing of the nations. The serpent remains cursed, but the other consequences likely disappear with the removal of the curse on the earth.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
on the cursed earth, not that this is how God wants it to be. These are simply the consequences of living outside of Eden on the cursed earth away from the tree of life
yes this is the cursed earth

outside of eden

away from the tree of life…


thank you for saying so.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
and yet even here God continues to do a Creative work within sinners who believe

tell me how many believers will die to this world and leave it behind to follow Him?

instead many live for this cursed earth and all its needs and wants… and don’t want to go Home… rather, instead wanting a better job, a vacation, a nice life here.
 
Top