Original Sin...

ReverendRV said:
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

If you don't accept it; why not?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a Fundamental part concerning the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" dealt out because of the Fall of Man, which are a Generational Curse...
Click to expand...

I am in agreement with you in as far as you have gone thus far... In Adam, death came to all men, and physical death will continue until the end of the age.

Doug
 
Even though helpless a soul can fight the self and stay with God.

paul exhorts the same of us, that though we are in this world not to be of it. so we do need to choose, even if helpless, even if He knows already we are His.
 
American Gothic said:
that's Mosaic law tho...
Click to expand...
the law of the spirit of life is in Romans.

the alternative law is of sin and death, which adam chose.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

the law abolished is the law of sin and death…not His own law of life. He does not abolish His own rule.
 
American Gothic said:
He changes us/even as sinners tho

what is the inheritance you already now have been given in Him?
how are you to live now?
"but now, in Christ..."
Click to expand...
I am so very much grateful and in love with Him that He showed me His reality and what i have now is so much hope and expectance for the Change/rapture soon when all of us His Sons and daughters will again walk with Him in paradise and no more will sin rule
 
ReverendRV said:
Do you accept the Doctrine of Original Sin?

If so, what would you say the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches?

If you don't accept it; why not?

I accept the Doctrine of Original sin. After being here at CARM Forums for so long now, I think Original Sin (or the lack there-of) plays a Fundamental part concerning the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism; and let's say Traditionalism and other Liberal Christian beliefs. So I'll start out by saying the Doctrine of Original Sin teaches there are "Unconditional Consequences" dealt out because of the Fall of Man, which are a Generational Curse...
Click to expand...
Calvinists believed original sin includes both native depravity and native demerit

That is man does not just inherit depravity from Adam but his guilt as well

Arminans hold to native depravity but reject the idea of inherited guilt

Ezekiel 18:1–4 (AV) — 1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge? 3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:19–20 (AV) — 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

2 Kings 14:6 (AV) — 6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (AV) — 16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chronicles 25:4 (AV) — 4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

Jeremiah 31:29–30 (AV) — 29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. 30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
 
Stephen said:
In the narrative, two things were cursed, the serpent and the earth. The curse on the earth is lifted at the end of the story. There is no promise at the end of the story of any curse on Adam and Eve being lifted. Death is described as being "defeated" rather than a curse being lifted.

The woman was told that she would have a mixed blessing of fruitfullness and bearing of many children, and she was going to suffer pain in birthing those children. If this is a "curse", there isn't a place in the bible where this curse is lifted. Similarly she is told that she and women after her would be envious of men and men would rule over women. God said that men and women would do this to each other on the cursed earth, not that this is how God wants it to be. These are simply the consequences of living outside of Eden on the cursed earth away from the tree of life and its healing properties (Rev 22:2) but aren't due to God giving new law.

God's direct actions are limited in the narrative 1) curse the earth, 2) curse the serpent 3) throw man out of the garden 4) set cherubim and swords to keep the way to the garden.

And as we read the narrative, the curse on the earth is lifted at Christ's return and the tree of life will be available once again for the healing of the nations. The serpent remains cursed, but the other consequences likely disappear with the removal of the curse on the earth.
Click to expand...
I disagree with your synopsis that Man was not Cursed, but let's role with what you said. Isn't it true that the Animal Kingdom having the Fear of Man is a Generational Curse; otherwise it would only have lasted the Generation of Adam?

I'm not going to spend a lot of time with you because I think you are ignoring the obvious. If you won't ignore the implications of the Curse from the Fall, we can go a long way. But why would you want to get in an everlasting discussion with someone who refuses to listen to good points? I wouldn't...
 
Last edited:
TibiasDad said:
I am in agreement with you in as far as you have gone thus far... In Adam, death came to all men, and physical death will continue until the end of the age.

Doug
Click to expand...
See, this is why there is a difference between Arminians/Calvinists, and Traditionalists/Liberal Christians...

What would you say to those who've posted, who reject Original Sin? Do you think that rejecting Original sin 'could' lead people into Damning Heresy? Would you say that accepting Original Sin 'could' lead people out of Damning Hersey?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top