Didn't you click on the hyperlink:I've never had this discussion with you, nor have I ever ask you the question. Show me where and I will apologize. I've only got 81 post so where is it? Just give me the answer to my question?
Nowhere(, which is my point).
Not even "the Word" is stated to have created anything.
I didn't say it was a rhetorical question. I said it was a "rhetorical response to the 'gods' of the nations (eg Isaiah 44:9)"(, or more accurately, a response to the Israelites who were worshipping the gods of the nations).
It was added to exclude God and Jesus. As one scholar stated:
IOW, by adding "other" to the text, it is made clear that "all things were created in him" excludes God and 'the firstborn of creation'.On Colossians 1:15-20, you have focused precisely on the key to this passage. By calling Jesus the "firstborn of creation" in v.15, Paul has explicitly identified Christ as part of creation. Amazingly, most Christians overlook this fact. The JW's draw attention to it by inserting [other] into the subsequent verses. A bit heavy handed, but in terms of the content and meaning of the passage, perfectly correct. Paul does not mean to assert that Christ created himself, and he of course did not create God; rather he is the agent of creating everything else.
Again, the text doesn't say the Logos "created" anything.
I am waiting for you to prove how the him at John 1: 4 and the life in the him can both be Jesus?I still don't know what your talking about when you say, "the subject is always to the right of the word "of" and never to the left of the word "of." Give me an example of what you mean? Also, who's the "He" at John 1:2 and at John 1:4 who is the "Him" in these verses? Is it the Father or the Son?
No because the life was the light of men and who John was a witness to and that was Jesus. Again the life and the him can not both be Jesus. You word it the way you want because you know there is no clear documentation that says there was a Son of God before the Word became flesh. You have to keep reading to see who the life in the him was instead of stopping at the first so many vss. If there had been a Son of God before the Word became flesh the Father would not have kept that information secret.Keep your shirt on nathan. Our wifi in my area has been out for about 22 hours. Now, regarding John 1:4 you have failed to notice that the Apostle John is telling us that Jesus HAD LIFE IN HIMSELF BEFORE His incarnation. This power was given back to him AFTER his resurrection, after He had accomplished His mission as a man.
Also notice about John 1:4 that the use of the word "was" is in the past tense and shows life was in Jesus before His incarnation. You also have 1 John 1:1-2, "What was from the beginning what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled, concerning THE WORD OF LIFE. vs2, and the life was manifested and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you THE ETERNAL LIFE, which was with the Father and was manifested to us."
Notice from vs2 the life was "WITH" the Father just like John 1:1 says Jesus was "with" God and is God. There are two persons in view, God the Father and God the Son. If your with somebody you can't be that somebody. Ok, tell me what your excuse is to explain away these verses?