Paul’s thorn in the flesh

[Rook]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Since Paul was a religious terrorist, and murderer before His salvation - I'm sure satan and his folks took vicious pleasure in REMINDING HIM what he had been, and who he'd hurt, and who he'd destroyed back in the day. Maybe he'd run into friends or family of the folks he'd destroyed, which couldn't have been pleasant, and of course his old acquaintances among the pharisees, probably enjoyed tossing things in his teeth whenever they could.

 

[Rook]

Since Paul was a religious terrorist, and murderer before His salvation - I'm sure satan and his folks took vicious pleasure in REMINDING HIM what he had been, and who he'd hurt, and who he'd destroyed back in the day. Maybe he'd run into friends or family of the folks he'd destroyed, which couldn't have been pleasant, and of course his old acquaintances among the pharisees, probably enjoyed tossing things in his teeth whenever they could.

Interesting, I didn’t think of that before, but now that you mention it that seems very plausible… as we know Satan likes to bring accusations against us even if we’ve changed.

We’re only left with hints, but again i think he was dealing with a person or group of people. He just didn’t bother naming or putting too much light on them which I can understand why.

 

[Buzzard]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Paul says

Paul says;
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:
lest that by any means, when I have preached to others,
I myself should be a castaway.​

and he continues on in Ch.10

"Moreover, brethren,
I would not that ye should be ignorant,
how that all our fathers were under the cloud,
and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses
in the cloud and in the sea;
..
Now these things were our examples,
to the intent we should not lust after evil things,
as they also lusted.
.
Now all these things happened unto them for examples:
and they are written for our admonition,
upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore ......................​

Peter says
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue;
and to virtue knowledge;

------but-----------

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.

--------Posters-----------

Numbers 33 is loaded with info for your studies
thats where Daniel was to seek for the understanding of his vision
Dan.10:20
Then said he,
Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee?
..
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:
and there is none that holdeth with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.
//


You will find Pauls "Thorn in the Flesh" in Numbers ch.33

 

[Rook]

Paul says

​

Paul says;​

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:​

lest that by any means, when I have preached to others,​

I myself should be a castaway.​

and he continues on in Ch.10

"Moreover, brethren,​

I would not that ye should be ignorant,​

how that all our fathers were under the cloud,​

and all passed through the sea;​

And were all baptized unto Moses​

in the cloud and in the sea;​

..​

Now these things were our examples,​

to the intent we should not lust after evil things,​

as they also lusted.​

.​

Now all these things happened unto them for examples:​

and they are written for our admonition,​

upon whom the ends of the world are come.​

​

12 Wherefore ......................​

Peter says
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue;
and to virtue knowledge;

------but-----------

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.

--------Posters-----------

Numbers 33 is loaded with info for your studies
thats where Daniel was to seek for the understanding of his vision
Dan.10:20
Then said he,
Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee?
..
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:
and there is none that holdeth with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.
//


You will find Pauls "Thorn in the Flesh" in Numbers ch.33

Do you think there's any hints in the NT as to who it may be? One theory I've heard from a preacher that I've never heard anyone else say is that he believe it's referring to the Circumcision sect that was following Paul around trying to kill him for spreading the Gospel. Another preacher I've heard says that Paul is secretly referring to the very church he's writing to at Corinth which was giving him a bit of trouble that he had to write to them about their behavior. I think possibly who he's referring to has no other mention in scripture specifically other than in that instance and that it's just an unknown mystery group/person.

 

[Buzzard]

Buzzard said:
Paul says

Paul says;
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:
lest that by any means, when I have preached to others,
I myself should be a castaway.
and he continues on in Ch.10

"Moreover, brethren,
I would not that ye should be ignorant,
how that all our fathers were under the cloud,
and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses
in the cloud and in the sea;
..
Now these things were our examples,
to the intent we should not lust after evil things,
as they also lusted.
.
Now all these things happened unto them for examples:
and they are written for our admonition,
upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore ......................
Peter says
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue;
and to virtue knowledge;

------but-----------

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.

--------Posters-----------

Numbers 33 is loaded with info for your studies
thats where Daniel was to seek for the understanding of his vision
Dan.10:20
Then said he,
Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee?
..
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:
and there is none that holdeth with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.
//


You will find Pauls "Thorn in the Flesh" in Numbers ch.33
=====================================

Do you think there's any hints in the NT as to who it may be? One theory I've heard from a preacher that I've never heard anyone else say is that he believe it's referring to the Circumcision sect that was following Paul around trying to kill him for spreading the Gospel. Another preacher I've heard says that Paul is secretly referring to the very church he's writing to at Corinth which was giving him a bit of trouble that he had to write to them about their behavior. I think possibly who he's referring to has no other mention in scripture specifically other than in that instance and that it's just an unknown mystery group/person.

Men sent down from Jerusalem by Satan himself
deceitful workers, a bunch of False Apostles,
sent to mock Paul and remind everyone who Paul used to be;


#2: it wasn't the Cornith church,
but men sent to follow Paul around everywhere he went,,
Read Genesis ch 24 very carefully
question:
Who was this man Paul ???

answer;
the most trusted servant of the Father;
sent to get the Bride for the Promised Son = Christ

The Father sent only """ONE SERVANT""" not many

 

[Buzzard]

Paul says of Timothy

1Tim. 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth;
but be thou an example of the believers,
in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading,
to exhortation, to doctrine.

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee,
which was given thee by prophecy,
with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.​

If you look carefully in Numbers;
and Genesis;
you will also find Timothy there;
as Paul passed on
it was the young man, Timothy that took the torch and his authority,

it was Timothy that Paul left in charge in the Church of Ephesus;
the 1st day church

 

[Gary Mac]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Paul was clear that the thorn in his flesh was his desire to be exalted beyond measure for his abundance of revelations. Otherwise have his name on the marque, and even asked God to take that from him three times but then still did the things he didnt want to do.

 

[docphin5]

Do you think there's any hints in the NT as to who it may be? One theory I've heard from a preacher that I've never heard anyone else say is that he believe it's referring to the Circumcision sect that was following Paul around trying to kill him for spreading the Gospel. Another preacher I've heard says that Paul is secretly referring to the very church he's writing to at Corinth which was giving him a bit of trouble that he had to write to them about their behavior. I think possibly who he's referring to has no other mention in scripture specifically other than in that instance and that it's just an unknown mystery group/person.

Here is a theory few have thought of and actually makes sense. The person who was a thorn in Paul’s flesh was Peter. Here is the evidence.

1). The canonical Gospels were arguably written esoterically for the canonical ”Jesus” as a cypher for Paul. There are many reasons for this which include but not limited to the following:

a) Paul’s followers thought of him as Jesus Christ. (Gal. 4:14)​

b) paul explicitly claimed to be the living Christ. (Gal 2:20)​

c) the Talmud claims that there were two Jesus’, one who founded the Jewish-Christian sect, namely, “The Way”, around 100 BC, and another in the first century CE. Therefore, logically the spirit in Paul was considered a reincarnation of the anointed Joshua who led the Essenes.​

d) the Mandean‘s literature refer to Paul in the first century as Jesus.​

e) many of the things written in Paul’s epistles are later attributed to the canonical “Jesus”. (I have an OP on that point providing more details.)​

​

Which supports other evidence for who the “thorn” was.

2) Both Paul and the canonical Jesus refer to an adversary. In the case of canonical Jesus the person is identified as Peter. (Matt 16:23). Whereas Paul explicitly describes Peter and Paul in opposition. (Gal. 2:11) From the context in his letter to the Galatians it appears Peter was following Paul around trying to undermine his authority.

a) For the record, the relationship of Paul and Peter in Acts of the Apostles is pure fiction which clearly tries to portray Paul and Peter as working hand in hand as equals. Scholars have pointed this out elsewhere. The Acts sole purpose in being written was to unite Gentile Christianity with Judaizing christians by bringing the Judaizing Peter alongside the anti-Judaizing Paul as equals.​

b) The canonical Gospels clearly describe the apostles of the canonical Jesus as clueless to the purpose of Jesus, just as the “so called apostles”, namely, Peter, James, and John, were clueless to the purpose of Paul who was abrogating circumcision, sabbath observance, and food laws, just as the canonical Jesus is portrayed in the Gospels.​

3) The Homilies identify Simon Magus as Paul per the Tubin school. (Details not provided here for brevity.) The point being that according to Peter’s own words he was physically following Simon, aka, Paul, from place to place, trying to undermine his authority per James’ instructions. IOW, being a thorn in Paul’s flesh.

a) The Homilies were arguably based on ”The Circuits of Peter” but subsequently overworked by the Catholic church to deconflict Peter and Paul’s (Simons) adversarial relationship.​

​

Note: It might seem weird that both “Simon the magician” and the canonical “Jesus” were used as cyphers for the same person, namely, Paul, in the New Testament literature but it actually makes perfect sense.

When Paul was alive he was opposed by the “so called apostles” of the Essene movement, namely, Peter, James, and John who Judaized. They saw him as a renegade member of their sect and referred to him under the cypher Simon the magician. But after Paul’s death and the destruction of Jerusalem they had an epiphany and change of heart towards Paul just as the canonical Gospels characterize the apostles epiphany about the canonical Jesus. Simply, it was then and only then after Paul/Jesus’ death did they realize he was the unique moral leader predicted to come by the founder of the way around 100 BC.

Therefore, and this is important, during the first century the Jewish-Christian church was divided about the authority of Paul such that the perspective towards him went from one of an adversarial, polemical perspective, i.e., “Simon the Magician”, TO outright adoration and submission to Paul’s authority as the true apostle, so much so, that after his martyrdom they canonized his epistles through the “Jesus” of the Gospel stories. (Dykstra, “Mark, the Canonizer of Paul”). It was around a hundred years later that members of the church tried to clean things up by revising history through the fictitious ”Acts of the Apostles” and other revisions.

 

[Buzzard]

Jealousy

Here is a theory few have thought of and actually makes sense. The person who was a thorn in Paul’s flesh was Peter. Here is the evidence.

Ez.8
And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head;
and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven,
and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north;
where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

Peter was so Jealous of Paul he had hissy fits about it

 

[docphin5]

Jealousy

Ez.8
And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head;
and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven,
and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north;
where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

Peter was so Jealous of Paul he had hissy fits about it

I think Peter, James, and John were jealous of the positive response Paul received from Gentiles. At first, Jewish-Christians scattered all over the Roman Empire outnumbered Gentile-Christians, until Paul opened the flood gates to all by abrogating all rituals particular to Judaism, ie., circumcision, temple rituals, jewish feasts, sabbath observance, etc.

Peter was conceivably angry at first and jealous that so many Gentiles were joining Paul’s churches such that the flood of newcomers threatened to outnumber those Jews Peter, et al., had converted. For Paul to abrogate those rituals that made Judaism special to Jews in order to emphasize its universal message for all was unthinkable to Peter…until Jerusalem fell, the Temple laid in ruins around 70 CE and Judaism became seen as political revolutionaries. Then Paul’s message (a Jewish-Christian religion without its outward Jewish rituals) made a lot of sense and likely Peter was overcome with grief and guilt for having doubted the one (“light”) sent to the nations as foretold by Isaiah.

”It is too light a thing that you should be my servant​

to raise up the tribes of Jacob​

and to bring back the preserved of Israel;​

I will make you as a LIGHT for the nations,​

that my salvation [my Jesus] may reach to the end of the earth.” (Isaiah 49:6)​

​

And so he did!​

 

[Bob Carabbio]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Imagine running into the friends or families of the people that Paul had DESTROYED during his "Religious Terrorist" days!!! I imagine that, plus the memory of how, in his own wisdom, he'd destroyed many people, THINKING that he was doing God a "service"!!! Seems tht would work on you, and you can BE SURE that satan's folks rubbed Pauls nose in it as ofter as they could.

 

[Gary Mac]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Yes Pauls desire was to be exalted for his abundance of revelations, otherwise like most preachers desired his name to be on the marque. He asked God to deliver him from that selfish desire three times, but still went to the gave the sinner he said he was.

That is exactly why I follow the ways od Jesus in holiness instead of Paul in unholiness.

Paul even stated that he used trickery, which is witchcraft, soothsaying, to get people to follow him, exalt him, and look how many today exalt him in his ways as a sinner instead of following Jesus in his ways in righteousness, holiness, and without sin.

Not to say Paul didnt have some things right, he said a few things that can be attributed to God in His ways, but to say he wanted people to learn his doctrine just doesnt fit with me who has received from God the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 as God commands of us all if we are to be His kingdom where He lives.

To me Jesus has the better way in the Father than Paul had of himself. A lot more people Paul has tricked into be a sinner Then Jesus ever did who were without sin and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as commanded of us in. Matt 5;48.

Jesus is my way to the Father, not Paul or any other man.

 

[Gary Mac]

Imagine running into the friends or families of the people that Paul had DESTROYED during his "Religious Terrorist" days!!! I imagine that, plus the memory of how, in his own wisdom, he'd destroyed many people, THINKING that he was doing God a "service"!!! Seems tht would work on you, and you can BE SURE that satan's folks rubbed Pauls nose in it as ofter as they could.

Saul, changed his name to Paul and here is why. Saul was out to destroy Christs beliefs, and when he discovered he could not succeed in that, changed his identity, and made his own doctrine to get people to follow him as a sinner, instead of without sin as the equals of God in Christ.

He even noted that he used trickery, witchcraft, soothsaying, to get people to follow in his ways as a sinner instead of the righteousness God puts in us by His same Spirit of mind to be perfgec t even as God in heaven is perfect, Matt 5;48.

In effect, Paul has led more people to be the sinner than Jesus ever did to be the saint and without sin. SO Saul actually did that what he originally set out to do, he just changed his tactics to get people to follow him as a sinner instead of the ways of Jesus in the Father and without sin ourselves.

It is ironic that people can relate to Paul as a sinner but cant relate to Jesus in righteousness and without sin. Perfect, cannot sin because we are born of God, 1 John 3:9.

 

[Rook]

Yes Pauls desire was to be exalted for his abundance of revelations, otherwise like most preachers desired his name to be on the marque. He asked God to deliver him from that selfish desire three times, but still went to the gave the sinner he said he was.

That is exactly why I follow the ways od Jesus in holiness instead of Paul in unholiness.

Paul even stated that he used trickery, which is witchcraft, soothsaying, to get people to follow him, exalt him, and look how many today exalt him in his ways as a sinner instead of following Jesus in his ways in righteousness, holiness, and without sin.

Not to say Paul didnt have some things right, he said a few things that can be attributed to God in His ways, but to say he wanted people to learn his doctrine just doesnt fit with me who has received from God the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 as God commands of us all if we are to be His kingdom where He lives.

To me Jesus has the better way in the Father than Paul had of himself. A lot more people Paul has tricked into be a sinner Then Jesus ever did who were without sin and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as commanded of us in. Matt 5;48.

Jesus is my way to the Father, not Paul or any other man.

Interesting reading, but you have Paul misread my friend. Where does Paul encourage anyone to sin btw?

 

[greatdivide46]

If Paul was married (and I don't know for sure that he was), maybe his thorn in the flesh was an unbelieving wife. Just a thought, for whatever it's worth.

 

[David1701]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

It was a demon. A literal translation would be, "...an angel of Satan to buffet me.".

 

[Buzzard]

Ez.8
And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head;
and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven,
and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north;
where was the seat of the image of jealousy,
which provoketh to jealousy.

Imagine running into the friends or families of the people that Paul had DESTROYED during his "Religious Terrorist" days!!! I imagine that, plus the memory of how, in his own wisdom, he'd destroyed many people, THINKING that he was doing God a "service"!!! Seems tht would work on you, and you can BE SURE that satan's folks rubbed Pauls nose in it as ofter as they could.

Bob Carabbio said:
Imagine running into the friends or families of the people that Paul had DESTROYED during his "Religious Terrorist" days!!! I imagine that, plus the memory of how, in his own wisdom, he'd destroyed many people, THINKING that he was doing God a "service"!!! Seems tht would work on you, and you can BE SURE that satan's folks rubbed Pauls nose in it as ofter as they could.

Here is a theory few have thought of and actually makes sense. The person who was a thorn in Paul’s flesh was Peter. Here is the evidence.

1). The canonical Gospels were arguably written esoterically for the canonical ”Jesus” as a cypher for Paul. There are many reasons for this which include but not limited to the following:

a) Paul’s followers thought of him as Jesus Christ. (Gal. 4:14)​

b) paul explicitly claimed to be the living Christ. (Gal 2:20)​

c) the Talmud claims that there were two Jesus’, one who founded the Jewish-Christian sect, namely, “The Way”, around 100 BC, and another in the first century CE. Therefore, logically the spirit in Paul was considered a reincarnation of the anointed Joshua who led the Essenes.​

d) the Mandean‘s literature refer to Paul in the first century as Jesus.​

e) many of the things written in Paul’s epistles are later attributed to the canonical “Jesus”. (I have an OP on that point providing more details.)​

​

Which supports other evidence for who the “thorn” was.

2) Both Paul and the canonical Jesus refer to an adversary. In the case of canonical Jesus the person is identified as Peter. (Matt 16:23). Whereas Paul explicitly describes Peter and Paul in opposition. (Gal. 2:11) From the context in his letter to the Galatians it appears Peter was following Paul around trying to undermine his authority.

a) For the record, the relationship of Paul and Peter in Acts of the Apostles is pure fiction which clearly tries to portray Paul and Peter as working hand in hand as equals. Scholars have pointed this out elsewhere. The Acts sole purpose in being written was to unite Gentile Christianity with Judaizing christians by bringing the Judaizing Peter alongside the anti-Judaizing Paul as equals.​

b) The canonical Gospels clearly describe the apostles of the canonical Jesus as clueless to the purpose of Jesus, just as the “so called apostles”, namely, Peter, James, and John, were clueless to the purpose of Paul who was abrogating circumcision, sabbath observance, and food laws, just as the canonical Jesus is portrayed in the Gospels.​

docphin5 said:
Here is a theory few have thought of and actually makes sense. The person who was a thorn in Paul’s flesh was Peter. Here is the evidence.

1). The canonical Gospels were arguably written esoterically for the canonical ”Jesus” as a cypher for Paul. There are many reasons for this which include but not limited to the following:
a) Paul’s followers thought of him as Jesus Christ. (Gal. 4:14)
b) paul explicitly claimed to be the living Christ. (Gal 2:20)
c) the Talmud claims that there were two Jesus’, one who founded the Jewish-Christian sect, namely, “The Way”, around 100 BC, and another in the first century CE. Therefore, logically the spirit in Paul was considered a reincarnation of the anointed Joshua who led the Essenes.
d) the Mandean‘s literature refer to Paul in the first century as Jesus.
e) many of the things written in Paul’s epistles are later attributed to the canonical “Jesus”. (I have an OP on that point providing more details.)

Which supports other evidence for who the “thorn” was.

2) Both Paul and the canonical Jesus refer to an adversary. In the case of canonical Jesus the person is identified as Peter. (Matt 16:23). Whereas Paul explicitly describes Peter and Paul in opposition. (Gal. 2:11) From the context in his letter to the Galatians it appears Peter was following Paul around trying to undermine his authority.
a) For the record, the relationship of Paul and Peter in Acts of the Apostles is pure fiction which clearly tries to portray Paul and Peter as working hand in hand as equals. Scholars have pointed this out elsewhere. The Acts sole purpose in being written was to unite Gentile Christianity with Judaizing christians by bringing the Judaizing Peter alongside the anti-Judaizing Paul as equals.
b) The canonical Gospels clearly describe the apostles of the canonical Jesus as clueless to the purpose of Jesus, just as the “so called apostles”, namely, Peter, James, and John, were clueless to the purpose of Paul who was abrogating circumcision, sabbath observance, and food laws, just as the canonical Jesus is portrayed in the Gospels.

===========================================

-------------Buzz says-------------
Peter was so Jealous of Paul he had hissy fits about it

Pauls Thorn in the Flesh, was Peter and his minions
continually reminding everone who Paul (Saul) was in the past;

You will find Pauls "Thorn in the Flesh" in Numbers ch.33
=====================================

 

[Gary Mac]

“And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.” 2 Corinthians 12:7

It’s strange to me that it’s taught by brethren that no one knows what this is or what it could have been.

Clearly this reference applies to a person…maybe multiple people, but even that seems a bit of a stretch to me. He didn’t bother going into much detail about them, and for a reason I’m sure, but again I don’t understand why brethren say we can’t possibly know what he was referring to. Even though it’s a figure of speech he tells us right there in the same breath that this thorn in the flesh he speaks of is a messenger of Satan. I’m curious if it could possibly be referring to someone who was stalking and harassing him in some ways.
i supposed the takeaway for us is that, even though this is something that Paul had to deal with from the enemy it was not enough to stop the work he did, which is a good thing!

Paul was very clear that the thorn in his flesh was his desire to be exalted for his abundance of revelations. Otherwise -- his desire to have his name on the marque to be seen noble by man, and he asked God to take that desire away from him three times.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

 

[Buzzard]

post #18
-------------Buzz says-------------
Peter was so Jealous of Paul he had hissy fits about it

Pauls Thorn in the Flesh, was Peter and his minions
continually reminding everone who Paul (Saul) was in the past;

You will find Pauls "Thorn in the Flesh" in Numbers ch.33
=====================================

has anyone bothered to read Numbers ch 33 ?????????