Paul and Peter, Sicarii-in-arms

Harel13

Harel13

Active member
American Gothic said:
when was this published?
what is Mr. Korman's bibliographical info?
anything we here might be able to look at?
as a youth, I loved the book "The Cross and the Switchblade", so I'm into this sort of stuff


would it be Kosher for him to make something up out of, er....Mixed cloth?
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"the subject (of the OP)" is not what I meant when I wrote" the subject". I was referring to the subject you asked about.
 
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Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
some Jews are taught from a young age that they are Special
and that the NT is a Gentile handbook on how to kill Jews
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My son is special because he is autistic. My daughter is special because she does art. Special means many things. It does not imply "better."

You cannot read the Tanakh without udnerstanding that it teaches God set the People of Israel apart from the rest of the world, making us a nation of priests.
 
Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
101G said:
@Harel13, you said,

I do.

how is the NT anti-Semitic?

please post at least three reason, to START.... will be look for your reply.

PICJAG, 101G.
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John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.

Matthew 27:25, "May his blood be upon us and upon our children."

Romans 11:25 that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Took me only a couple of minutes to look those up and paste them. The truth be told, you can write an entire lengthy essay on this topic.
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
What is the earliest reference to Original Sin? - discussion on mi yodeya

"Shabbos 146a the snake put a "zuhama" which sefira translates as moral contamination,
which is carried into all of Humanity. Jews on Har Sinai removed it but the rest
of Humanity still has it." - Chatzkel

"there is a physical and mental difference between Jews and non-Jews"
- Chatzkel

I don't see this thinking as Biblical.

Jews are special in some ways, and no different from their fellow Humans in some ways.
I've always affirmed Israel/the Jewish people's special relationship with God -
as does the New Testament
there is a Spiritual difference between Believers and non-Believers
Essenism vs Pharisaism is a clash of Jewish views
Historically, Jews killing other Jews with swords is Fact
nothing Gentile about it
-
have a lovely Shabbat everyone
 
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1

101G

Well-known member
Open Heart said:
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.

Matthew 27:25, "May his blood be upon us and upon our children."

Romans 11:25 that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Took me only a couple of minutes to look those up and paste them. The truth be told, you can write an entire lengthy essay on this topic.
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well it took me only a second, to paste this, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." NOW THE VERY NEXT VERSES,

Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped."

Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."

Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes."

NOW LISTEN,
Isaiah 35:8 "And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein."

see, not your way, but God's way, listen, Romans 10:3 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

see, when one is IGNORANT of God's word, them one will post those type of scriptures, instead of ONE LIKE THIS, Luke 19:8 "And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold."
Luke 19:9 "And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham." WHAT?
Luke 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

see OH you want to use the NT scriptures for EVIL, (for YOU), but you cannot use the same scriptures for their "GOOD".

this why I say, and say again, when one wants to use some of the NT scriptures, and not all the NT scriptures are guilty of all.... just as with your LAW, James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

see, your hypocrisy of the NT scriptures, has made you GUITY of ALL scriptures the OLD as well as the NEW.

for our brothewr James is correct in God. James 1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 3:8 "But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." James 3:9 "Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God." James 3:10 "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:11 "Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?"

this is why those, (not all Jews), was this way, ...... "EVIL" in their MINDS, and hence why, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways"

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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Jewjitzu

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Harel13 said:
I'm sure every Jew who occasionally pops by this site has his favorite "who was the real Jesus?" theory, seeing as we have little faith in the words of the NT. There are also a number of theories about who Paul and the other apostles were. On Shabbat I read an interesting theory I hadn't heard before, by Avraham Korman in his book "Sects and Cults in Judaism". In it he explains that he believes that Paul was very likely really a "punisher" for the Sanhedrin, as Paul himself claims to have been. However, it seems that he was fired for some reason (not really surprising. We can make a whole list of Paul's wonderful character traits as described in the NT). Down on his luck, he met Peter one day. Peter is described in the NT as being able to mystically kill people:


Korman compared this to Josephus's description of the Sicarii in Wars of the Jews, 2:13:

Korman concluded that Peter was a Sicarius. That was how he was able to "magically" murder people: He stabbed them so quickly that no one realized what had happened.

What this makes him out to have been is nothing but a thug. This particular thug wanted power. He wanted a following. He collected a group of followers and built a perverted ideology based around the teachings of one Jesus ben Pantira, an ex-Pharisee who had been tried and punished by the Sanhedrin over a century prior. Evidently, traces of his teachings could still be found among certain sects (similarly, we find that traces of Second Temple cult ideologies were still preserved for a time by the Karaites and other medieval Jewish sects). Peter, originally called "Shimon", was given the name "Peter Chamor" (פטר חמור) in Jewish tradition, for he was the first to follow the Jesusian ideology, just as the firstborn donkey is to be killed. Peter, the firstborn donkey strangled his Judaism with idolatrous, heretical beliefs.

And so, Paul eventually chanced upon this Peter, and, realizing that joining this thuggish sect might be beneficial to him, joined up with him and assisted him with what may be deemed similar to a spiritual protection racket. It seems that at some point they had a falling-out (if anything in the NT is to be trusted) and Paul went his own way. He directed the spiritual racket at the non-Jews. Decades later, the legends about Jesus ben Pantira, Shaul/Paul and Shimon-Peter-Chamor were mixed and matched by several different authors to form what would become the books of the Avon-gilayon ("text of sin" as the Talmud calls it) and the rest is history.

That is essentially Korman's understanding of the early history of Christianity.

Thoughts?
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Hey, I'm just seeing this now. I'll have to check out the book.
 
1

101G

Well-known member
Jewjitzu said:
Sort of like Jesus' so called miracles?
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so called? did you not read in your tanakh, that it is Jesus who is the TRUE miracles worker? because he is God. listen to your tanakh.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

see that term "Wonderful", it is the Hebrew word,
H6382 פֶּלֶא pele' (peh'-leh) n-m.
a miracle.
[from H6381]
KJV: marvellous thing, wonder(-ful, -fully).
Root(s): H6381

yes, the miracle worker who is God..

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Jewjitzu

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
101G said:
so called? did you not read in your tanakh, that it is Jesus who is the TRUE miracles worker? because he is God. listen to your tanakh.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

see that term "Wonderful", it is the Hebrew word,
H6382 פֶּלֶא pele' (peh'-leh) n-m.
a miracle.
[from H6381]
KJV: marvellous thing, wonder(-ful, -fully).
Root(s): H6381

yes, the miracle worker who is God..

PICJAG, 101G.
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Aah, Jesus was born 700+ years after the fact, and never fulfilled this verse.

Try again...
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
700 after the fact, never fulfilled
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"All the prophets prophesied for the days of the Messiah" - Berachoth 34b
"All the prophets prophesied only in respect to the Messianic era" - Sanhedrin 99a

"With Yeshu (sic) it was different, he was connected to the government" - Sanhedrin 43
 
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Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
"All the prophets prophesied for the days of the Messiah" - Berachoth 34b
"All the prophets prophesied only in respect to the Messianic era" - Sanhedrin 99a

"With Yeshu (sic) it was different, he was connected to the government" - Sanhedrin 43
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The Yeshu in Sanhedrin 43 is not the Yeshua of the gospels.
 
Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
so they may say

was Isaac's prophesied miraculous conception prophetic of Messiah in some way, as the Rabbi's suggest?
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Is the Jesus of the gospels conencted with the government? No. So it can't be the same Yeshu.

Remember that Yeshua was an extraordinarily common jewish name at that time.
 
A

American Gothic

Well-known member
Open Heart said:
Is the Jesus of the gospels conencted with the government? No. So it can't be the same Yeshu.
Remember that Yeshua was an extraordinarily common jewish name at that time.
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He could prove His Davidic ancestry and birth in Bethlehem, unlike most at that time
They didn't say Yeshua, they deliberately said Yeshu (may his name be blotted out) :oops:
 
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