Paul applies YHWH from Joel 3:5 (LXX) unto the Lord Jesus in Romans 10:13

Fred

Well-known member
Romans 10:8-14
(8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
(9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
(10) For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
(12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
(13) For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
(14) How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? (NKJV)

1. The use of "For" in vv. 10-13 connects back to the Lord in reference Jesus in verse 9. Thus, all the underlined words above refer to the Lord Jesus.
a. BDAG (3rd Edition): Kyrios is also used in reference to Jesus
to onoma kuriou Ro 10:13 (cp. Jo 3:5)...Hb 1:10 (cp. Ps 101:26).... 1 Pt 2:3 (cp. Ps 33:9). (kyrios, page 577-578)

2. To "call on the name of the Lord" (or similar variations) refers to praying to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH. This is taught in quite a few passages (Acts 2:21; 9:14, 21; 22:16; Romans 10:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Timothy 2:22). The assertion that the Lord Jesus is not the proper recipient of prayer is proven false.
a. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: to "call upon" the name of Yahweh was "to worship him" as God (Ge 21:33; 26:25, etc.)...men "called upon the name" of Jesus, as they had done on that of Yahweh (Ac 9:14, 21 (compare Ac 7:59); Ro 10:13-14). (Name, W. L. Walker)
Name - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
b. Theological Lexicon of the New Testament: First Corinthians is addressed to "those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in any place" (1 Cor 1:2), the church being the gathering of those who adore Christ, who celebrate his worship (cf. Ps 145:18) and pray to him from a pure heart. Over and against the religious individualism of the Greek cities, all believers are united in their adoration of Christ as Lord and God; their common "invocation" is the expression of their unity. (2:44, epikaleō)

3. Notice also that according to Romans 10:8 the gospel that Paul preached included calling on the name of the Lord Jesus as being YHWH. This demonstrates that if one denies the Lord Jesus is YHWH they have also denied the gospel.
 

Fred

Well-known member
2. To "call on the name of the Lord" (or similar variations) refers to praying to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH.

To believe in Jesus (Acts 22:19) means to pray to Him as being YHWH (Acts 9:14).
Acts 9:14
And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name. (ESV)
Acts 22:19
And I said, Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you. (ESV)

Those who refuse to pray to Jesus as being YHWH do not believe in the biblical Jesus.


3. Notice also that according to Romans 10:8 the gospel that Paul preached included calling on the name of the Lord Jesus as being YHWH. This demonstrates that if one denies the Lord Jesus is YHWH they have also denied the gospel.

Praying to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH (Acts 9:21) is an important part of "the faith" (Galatians 1:23) that Christians must "contend earnestly for" (Jude 1:3).
Acts 9:21
All those hearing him continued to be amazed, and were saying, “Is this not he who in Jerusalem destroyed those who called on this name, and who had come here for the purpose of bringing them bound before the chief priests?” (NASB)
Galatians 1:23
but only, they kept hearing, “He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith which he once tried to destroy." (NASB)
Jude 3
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. (NASB)

Those who refuse to pray to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH do not belong to the Christian faith.
 

cjab

Well-known member
Those who refuse to pray to the Lord Jesus as being YHWH do not belong to the Christian faith.
You are in serious error.

The words "call on the name" of someone do not in the first instance relate to direct prayer, but to acknowledgment of, appeal to, and to pronouncing the name of someone. As to the forms of prayer: the apostles and Jesus clearly taught that prayer was to be directed to the Father in Jesus' name.

The Greek word for "call on" is epikaleō which has the following meanings
  • to put a name upon, to surname
    1. to permit one's self to be surnamed
  • to be named after someone
  • to call something to one
    1. to cry out upon or against one
    2. to charge something to one as a crime or reproach
    3. to summon one on any charge, prosecute one for a crime
    4. to blame one for, accuse one of
  • to invoke
    1. to call upon for one's self, in one's behalf
      1. any one as a helper
      2. as my witness
      3. as my judge
      4. to appeal unto
  • to call upon by pronouncing the name of Jehovah
There is not a single verse in the NT directing prayer to Jesus as YHWH: i.e. so as to exclude the Father. You're just making it up.
 

Fred

Well-known member
You are in serious error.

The words "call on the name" of someone do not in the first instance relate to direct prayer, but to acknowledgment of, appeal to, and to pronouncing the name of someone.

You are confused. See 2ab in the OP.
Here's more:
1. Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament: to invoke, to pray to, to worship...of Christ...1 Cor. 1:2; Acts 22:16; also Acts 9:21. (epikaleō, pages 279-280)
 

cjab

Well-known member
You are confused. See 2ab in the OP.
Here's more:
1. Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament: to invoke, to pray to, to worship...of Christ...1 Cor. 1:2; Acts 22:16; also Acts 9:21. (epikaleō, pages 279-280)
I consulted your Name - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

"The significance of the name of Jesus in relation to prayer deserves special notice. To pray in the name of Jesus, to ask anything in His name, according to His promises, "Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do" (Joh 14:13; compare Joh 14:14; 15:16; 16:23); "Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask .... that your joy may be made full" (Joh 16:24), is not merely to add to our prayers (as is so often unthinkingly done): "we ask all in the name of Jesus," or "through Jesus Christ our Lord," etc., but to pray or ask as His representatives on earth, in His mission and stead, in His spirit and with His aim; it implies union with Christ and abiding in Him, He in us and we in Him. The meaning of the phrase is, "as being one with me even as I am revealed to you." Its two correlatives are "in me" (Joh 6:56; 14:20; 15:4 ff; Joh 16:33; compare 1Jo 5:20), and the Pauline "in Christ" (Westcott, The Gospel according to John).


W. L. Walker"

There is nothing about praying directly to Jesus.
 

Fred

Well-known member
That doesn't refute what I posted.
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: to "call upon" the name of Yahweh was "to worship him" as God (Ge 21:33; 26:25, etc.)...men "called upon the name" of Jesus, as they had done on that of Yahweh (Ac 9:14, 21 (compare Ac 7:59); Ro 10:13-14). (Name, W. L. Walker)

It complements it.

You need to do a better job at reading comprehension.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
3. Notice also that according to Romans 10:8 the gospel that Paul preached included calling on the name of the Lord Jesus as being YHWH. This demonstrates that if one denies the Lord Jesus is YHWH they have also denied the gospel.

When you say the Lord Jesus “is YHWH” and the Lord Jesus as “being YHWH”...

What exactly do you mean by “is YHWH” and “being YHWH”?

A) Is identical to the one who says “alone by myself” in Isaiah 44:24 (an identity statement)
B) Is the same substance as the one who says “alone by myself” in Isaiah 44:24 (a predication)
C) other, please explain

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

I mean A when I say “Jesus is YHWH”.
 

cjab

Well-known member
That doesn't refute what I posted.
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: to "call upon" the name of Yahweh was "to worship him" as God (Ge 21:33; 26:25, etc.)...men "called upon the name" of Jesus, as they had done on that of Yahweh (Ac 9:14, 21 (compare Ac 7:59); Ro 10:13-14). (Name, W. L. Walker)

It complements it.

You need to do a better job at reading comprehension.
Call upon (Heb: qara) means in the Old Testament sense, to proclaim / confess / believe in. It doesn't have a direct reference to prayer (Heb: nā' - beseech, tᵊp̄illâ prayer pālal pray or intercede).

You need to do a better job of parsing the original languages before you decide to radically re-interpret scripture.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
This demonstrates that if one denies the Lord Jesus is YHWH they have also denied the gospel.

Just to clarify YOUR Trinitarian view...

If a professing TRINITARIAN says “When we say the Father is God, the Son is God, those are not identity statements, rather they are predications”, are they denying the gospel?

In other words, when they say “Jesus is YHWH” they are not identifying Jesus as YHWH, rather they are saying Jesus has the same properties as YHWH.
 

Fred

Well-known member
Call upon (Heb: qara) means in the Old Testament sense, to proclaim / confess / believe in. It doesn't have a direct reference to prayer (Heb: nā' - beseech, tᵊp̄illâ prayer pālal pray or intercede).

You need to do a better job of parsing the original languages before you decide to radically re-interpret scripture.
When the Lord was called on in Psalm 116:4 it is in prayer.

You can play make believe with what the words of the Bible mean, but the serious Bible student knows not to tak such a pathetic approach.
.New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDNOTTE): The very first prayer is mentioned in Gen 4:26: "At that time men began to call on the name of the LORD". Before that time "men" (Adam, Eve, Cain) conversed directly with the Lord (3:8-19; 4:6-7, 9, 10-15). Now, bridging the developing gap, people began to communicate with God through prayer (4:1062, Prayer, P.A. Verhoef).
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Just to clarify YOUR Trinitarian view...

If a professing TRINITARIAN says “When we say the Father is God, the Son is God, those are not identity statements, rather they are predications”, are they denying the gospel?

In other words, when they say “Jesus is YHWH” they are not identifying Jesus as YHWH, rather they are saying Jesus has the same properties as YHWH.
No, Jesus is Yahweh!
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Same thing.

I understand you think those two terms mean the same thing.

But what is that meaning?

A) Jesus “is identical to” YHWH (an identity statement)
B) Jesus “has properties of” YHWH (a predication)
C) other, please explain
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Jesus is prayed to because He is YHWH.

Just to clarify your Trinitarian view of what “is” YHWH means...

(Predication) Jesus is prayed to because He is divine. True or False?

(Identity statement) Jesus is prayed to because He is the one who says “alone by myself” in Isaiah 44:24. True or False?

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
 
Top