people who rarely visit the Politics part of the forum should do so..

[stjerome5]

There's a thread there... I will get the name of it.. Sorry, I am not so young anymore..

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

 

[guest1]

A precursor for sure

 

[cjab]

There's a thread there... I will get the name of it.. Sorry, I am not so young anymore..

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

No, you're overthinking it. The mark or sign of the beast is the antithesis to the mark or sign of God, which is often mentioned in the Old Testament as being a mark of God's law, or adherence to it.

אוֹת​

occurs 79 times in the Old Testament and denotes all kinds of marks and signs, from circumcision to clothes etc.

I guess it would be seen in anything that is inherently pagan, from sacrificing to pagan gods, to having a Netflix subscription, or voting for the Democrats (don't take me too literally on the last one).

Having microchips in you is quite common these days e.g. for health reasons, and not inherently pagan.

 

[Photine]

A precursor for sure

No. The mark of the beast is "the third person of the trinity".

Rule 12.1

Do not discuss a board poster on the forums/visitor messages/chat, do not comment using their user name, and, most importantly, no disrespectful comments about our Lord.

 

[Josheb]

people who rarely visit the Politics part of the forum should do so..​

There's a thread there... I will get the name of it.. Sorry, I am not so young anymore..

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

First, the only Christians worried about implanted chips are dispensationalists.

Second, the secular boards are the least rational and among the most divisive so while I am a firm advocate for Christians speaking up in the marketplace of ideas, 1) most Christians do not well-integrate scripture with politics (another problem predominantly within Dispensationalism, and 2) scripture provides limits on the believers' participation with fools.

 

[leonard03782]

people who rarely visit the Politics part of the forum should do so..

No thanks. I do not have the patience for it.

First, the only Christians worried about implanted chips are dispensationalists.

wrong. I am a "Pre-Tribber". I am not worried about it and neither is anyone else that I know of in my circles. We are interested to see how close we are to that day when we will be caught up. We are also looking at the situation in what used to Syria. We are keeping an eye on Israel and the third temple among other things. We keeping an eye on the "great reset" plans by the WEF. We are also watching to going on here in the states to get an idea of how much longer it will be before we collapse. The end is much closer than most people believe it is.

Second, the secular boards are the least rational and among the most divisive so while I am a firm advocate for Christians speaking up in the marketplace of ideas, 1) most Christians do not well-integrate scripture with politics (another problem predominantly within Dispensationalism,

Do you have any examples of this?

 

[Josheb]

First, the only Christians worried about implanted chips are dispensationalists.​

wrong. I am a "Pre-Tribber".

That makes you a Premillennial Dispensationalist.

We are interested to see how close we are to that day when we will be caught up.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with implanted chips.

We are also looking at the situation in what used to Syria.

Which makes you a Dispensationalist.

We are keeping an eye on Israel and the third temple among other things.

Which makes you a Dispensationalist.

We keeping an eye on the "great reset" plans by the WEF.

Which makes you a Dispensationalist.

The "great rest" by the WEF is a conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with any actual explicit statement in scripture, and that in turn is based on other eisegeticaly inferential interpretations of scripture asserting specific aspects of globalism and one-world governance that aren't actually stated in scripture.

We are also watching to going on here in the states to get an idea of how much longer it will be before we collapse.

Which makes you a Dispensationalist.

"We" don't "collapse." You might. The Church does not. This is important because at the core of the Dispensationalist theologies is a specific eschatology and specific ecclesiology that does not believe the Church will in fact prevail even over the gates of hell. They believe the world will continue to go to hell in a handbasket and the Church can and will do nothing about it, becoming increasingly impotent and in need of rescue. Jesus will rapture us off the planet - because of our failure.

They do not actually teach itthat way but that is in fact inherent in the modern-futurist eschatologies.

The end is much closer than most people believe it is.

Anyone and everyone says that. There's no particular significance in claiming the end is closer than it has ever been. The importance lies in the belief the end is imminent. Within the community of Christians who believe as you have here described yourself there is a long line of false teachers that have never once been correct about any of the anticipated events. Not once. 100% fail rate.

I am not trying to disrespect you.

I think this history is evidence warranting a reconsideration of the eschatology and the politics it drives.

Why? Because on Christian should subscribe to a view of scripture, no Christian should subscribe to a theological pov of view that is so thoroughly rife with false teachers and error. Especially when there are much more scripturally-consistent alternatives that haven't led to a plethora of false teachers and a pile of believers ever-looking for things nowhere stated in scripture (lie implants and third temples) that never happen.

Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I can even cite an example you yourself provided for us: the third temple.

There isn't actually any statement in the entirety of the Bible explicitly stating another temple will be built. The belief in a third temple is ALWAYS and ONLY a function of eisegetic inference, not sound exegesis. Were I to ask you to show me an actual verse explicitly stating, "A third temple will be built," you would in all likelihood 1) not acknowledge the truth no such verse exists and 2) post a bunch of verse you interpret as asserting a third temple but that do not actually explicitly state any such thing.

AND....... the vast majority of them will be from the Old Testament prophets and no the New Testament apostles (thereby evidencing a Judaization of Christian eschatology that should be avoided).....

AND...... every single one of your examples could be and would be better understood through the fact there was either a temple standing at that time, or one of two temples were subsequently built (Herod's or the Church) and the "Pre-Tribbers" denies their relevance as fulfillment of those prophesies.

But a more obvious example would be the simple fact the Bible never speaks of computer implants and such a position is only possible if a Christian denies one of the most base, basic precepts in sound exegesis: understand the text as the original author and his original audience would have understood it. There is simply no way any Bible author or anyone in their audience would have ever consider, much less concluded, what was written was about computer chips and computer chips being physically implanted in the human body. That interpretation is a modern invention! A physical mark, or a tattoo would be within the realm of possibility understanding that verse but not a chip implant.


But that is what modern-futurism has done to Christians. It has taught them to abandon basic precepts understanding scripture. It has taught them to measure scripture by modern history, and not the other way around.



Bone up on your eschatology. Even Historic Premillennialists do not believe Israel is relevant to Christian eschatology. That is something only the Dispensationalist believes. Look it up.




David Jeremiah teaches well on many doctrines within Christianity. If I listen to his teaching on salvation, atonement, or faith I am likely to hear scripturally grounded content with little embellishment. BUT he has repeatedly gone on record stating his belief Jesus will return before he dies. The man is 81 years old. If he lives to be 101 years old his teaching inescapably means Jesus is going to return within the next 20 years. Possible? Sure. Likely? Not if Israel is going to first get ALL of its original land back AND build a third temple AND reconstitute the Levitical Law AND begin animals sacrifices for the 15 million Jews currently living on the planet.

If the man dies before Jesus returns, he will have proven himself a false teacher.

No one will hold him accountable for his misleading error. No one is doing so now, and it is a very easy error to correct. There are many examples of this same problem occurring every day on "Christian" broadcasting. It is both ironic and paradoxical because one of the eschatological signs of which Jesus spoke was false teachers. They abound aplenty within modern futurism whereby Christians hold to a pre-tribulational view of end times occurring in our immediate future involving modern Israel.


So, the above is not one, but three examples for you. I can provide scores more, but the truth is I should not have to do so because you should already be aware of that problem and not ask someone else to explain it to you.

It is affecting your political views .

Providing good reason for every Christian, including you, to understand the veracity of the op .

 

[David1701]

The "great rest" by the WEF is a conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with any actual explicit statement in scripture, and that in turn is based on other eisegeticaly inferential interpretations of scripture asserting specific aspects of globalism and one-world governance that aren't actually stated in scripture.

Quote snipped.

The "Great Reset" is not a "conspiracy theory", and it's nothing to do with Dispensationalism. Just read what Klaus Schwab has written, or listen to political leaders from many countries. At the moment, three phrases are joined at the hip: "Great Reset", "Build Back Better" and "Levelling Up".

You don't have to believe in Dispensationalism, to be concerned about Marxism, centralisation of power and totalitarianism.

You also don't have to believe in Dispensationalism (I certainly don't) to be concerned about governments wanting to put chips in people's hands, for ID/purchasing goods (this is already starting to happen in Sweden).

 

[Josheb]

Quote snipped.

The "Great Reset" is not a "conspiracy theory", and it's nothing to do with Dispensationalism. Just read what Klaus Schwab has written, or listen to political leaders from many countries. At the moment, three phrases are joined at the hip: "Great Reset", "Build Back Better" and "Levelling Up".

Perhaps my point was missed. I am completely aware of the secular politics driving the "Great Reset," and nothing I posted should have been construed to say otherwise. The salient point is that modern futurists see this as eschatologically significant, and it is not. That is the conspiracy. We can hear the conspiracy everyday any day on Christian radio and tv. We can hear it hiding under the auspices of orthodoxy when it is nothing of the sort. What it is is fear-mongering from what may or may not be well-intentioned Christian teachers speaking from a theological position that has a long and uniform history of false predictions.

Those of us coming from more mainstream, orthodox, and non-dispensational povs have an entirely different understanding of history (past, present, and future) and that is one of the reasons those who rarely visit the politics board(s) should do so.

You don't have to believe in Dispensationalism, to be concerned about Marxism, centralisation of power and totalitarianism.

Never said a person did HAVE to believe in Dispensationalism to be concerned about Marxism, the centralization of power and totalitarian ism. That entire sentence is a red herring. What I said is the only people worried about implants are Dispensationalists, and I have used a more generalized term, "modern futurists" to cover the diversity contained within the Dispensational Premillennialist theology that places an emphasis on eschatology and ecclesiology by defining those doctrines differently than historical mainstream, orthodox Christianity outside of Dispensationalism. What I also alternatively both stated and further implied is that the other poster, personally, has self-asserted positions held by Dispensationalists, whether he self-identifies as Dispensationalist or not. A person may not think s/he is Dispensationalist but the contents of the prior posts so far evidence the opposite. I have therefore encouraged and exhorted that poster to (re-) examine the matter of Christian eschatology as articulated over the last 2000 years (and provided some starting resources to do so). If it looks like a Dispensationalist, talks like a Dispensationalist, walks like a Dispensationalist, and smells like a Dispensationalist then it is probably a Dispensationalist whether it thinks it is so or not. I also attempted to bring this conversation back to the original post and its original topic and point of discussion because while there are very real spiritual and behavioral concerns for Christians discussing politics over the internet, those who rarely do so should give it a try (as God leads) and do so for a variety of reasons.

I hope that is now clearer.

You also don't have to believe in Dispensationalism (I certainly don't) to be concerned about governments wanting to put chips in people's hands, for ID/purchasing goods (this is already starting to happen in Sweden).

Sure you do!

Perhaps a person need not be a Dispensationalist to have certain specific concerns about politics, social policy, and government action but you're moving the goal posts because the concerns you've expressed are not those of the prior poster.

Red herrings and moving goal posts are not cogent discourse.

Knowing you as I do from prior exchanges, I know you know both Judaism and Christianity grew up under various monarchies and totalitarian states. Modern Christians growing up in more pluralistic and democratic societies have had a completely different experience (for better or worse). First century Christians weren't concerned about the government beyond the persecution and use of Christians as pitch-covered night lights ?. In light of the previous poster's comments and those we can find any day every day in the Prophesy and Eschatology boards of most Christian forums, I might just as easily say I, as a Christian, embrace and look forward to devices that facilitate commerce even if they be physical implants into the body because I embrace and do not disdain technological advancement. I might also say, "Get over yourselves because it's coming and you don't actually have a choice," WHILE ALSO HAVING VALID CONCERNS about things like personal liberty, information security, and government control without incorrectly spiritualizing these matters or incorrectly making the matters of eschatological imminence. I'm not a big fan of implants but that doesn't mean I couldn't be or that it has anything to do with Christianity.

Take, for example, electric vehicles (EVs). Their production, of course, is driven a great deal by the political agenda of the left BUT there are other influences, such as the marketplace. Business doesn't need political motive to seek profit and new technologies have always been slow to be embraced but whenever and wherever they work and make money they are also inevitable. THAT has nothing to do with politics. My first car was a 1969 Camaro RS/SS. It was that year's Indy Pace Car. Nearly every teenager I knew in the 70s had a muscle car (or a sleeper) and as a result I am a big fan of old autos, their styling, power, and heritage. However, the moment I took my first drive in a Tesla I KNEW the days are waning for combustion engine autos because that car was sleek, powerful, smart, and just plain ol' cool. It has nothing to do with environmentalism or the left side of politics and everything to do with influences outside of either.

And it does not effect my salvation, my faith, nor my Christianity one bit. EVs are most definitely eschatologically significant and in no way indicative of an imminent rapture or millennial kingdom but I'll bet I can find posters who think otherwise. It is not their Christianity that causes such beliefs; it is their Dispensationalism. Those Christians who come from different theological orientations (such a the Covenantal position, for example) may and likely will have a much different perspectives on all things political. The Dominionist is definitely going to do so and the Reconstructionist all the more so. The classic, traditional Dispensationalist, on the other hand, will eschew any involvement in secular affairs - even as the fear-monger, warn, and protest to the contrary. All of which - again - goes to make a case for "people who rarely visit the politics part of the forum should do so," at least a little.

And I'll bet you already knew that.

I'll also wager you agree (and the two of use won't have too much difference theologically or spiritually about the point of the op.

So I'm not b=trying to be snarky when I ask why on earth did you think your post relevant to what I said to the other poster?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There's a thread there... I will get the name of it.. Sorry, I am not so young anymore..

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! We're all gonna die!!! But first, let's have lunch.

 

[David1701]

Perhaps my point was missed. I am completely aware of the secular politics driving the "Great Reset," and nothing I posted should have been construed to say otherwise. The salient point is that modern futurists see this as eschatologically significant, and it is not. That is the conspiracy. We can hear the conspiracy everyday any day on Christian radio and tv. We can hear it hiding under the auspices of orthodoxy when it is nothing of the sort. What it is is fear-mongering from what may or may not be well-intentioned Christian teachers speaking from a theological position that has a long and uniform history of false predictions.

Those of us coming from more mainstream, orthodox, and non-dispensational povs have an entirely different understanding of history (past, present, and future) and that is one of the reasons those who rarely visit the politics board(s) should do so.

Fair enough.

I've read some say that the "Great Reset" itself is a conspiracy theory and not real. That is what I thought you meant, from your wording. Thanks for clarifying.

Never said a person did HAVE to believe in Dispensationalism to be concerned about Marxism, the centralization of power and totalitarian ism. That entire sentence is a red herring. What I said is the only people worried about implants are Dispensationalists, ...

See my above comment, re. Marxism, etc.

I'm concerned about implants, because of the many ramifications (it will likely lead to a cashless society, giving almost complete control over a person's life to the government; the potential to be used for a social credit rating system; the potential to track your every move; the potential to put things in your body that you don't know about, etc.)

...and I have used a more generalized term, "modern futurists" to cover the diversity contained within the Dispensational Premillennialist theology that places an emphasis on eschatology and ecclesiology by defining those doctrines differently than historical mainstream, orthodox Christianity outside of Dispensationalism. What I also alternatively both stated and further implied is that the other poster, personally, has self-asserted positions held by Dispensationalists, whether he self-identifies as Dispensationalist or not. A person may not think s/he is Dispensationalist but the contents of the prior posts so far evidence the opposite. I have therefore encouraged and exhorted that poster to (re-) examine the matter of Christian eschatology as articulated over the last 2000 years (and provided some starting resources to do so). If it looks like a Dispensationalist, talks like a Dispensationalist, walks like a Dispensationalist, and smells like a Dispensationalist then it is probably a Dispensationalist whether it thinks it is so or not. I also attempted to bring this conversation back to the original post and its original topic and point of discussion because while there are very real spiritual and behavioral concerns for Christians discussing politics over the internet, those who rarely do so should give it a try (as God leads) and do so for a variety of reasons.

I do, but only very occasionally.

Perhaps a person need not be a Dispensationalist to have certain specific concerns about politics, social policy, and government action but you're moving the goal posts because the concerns you've expressed are not those of the prior poster.

They're not exactly the same concerns, but I am concerned about chips in hands, and I've outlined some good reasons above.

Knowing you as I do from prior exchanges, I know you know both Judaism and Christianity grew up under various monarchies and totalitarian states. Modern Christians growing up in more pluralistic and democratic societies have had a completely different experience (for better or worse). First century Christians weren't concerned about the government beyond the persecution and use of Christians as pitch-covered night lights ?. In light of the previous poster's comments and those we can find any day every day in the Prophesy and Eschatology boards of most Christian forums, I might just as easily say I, as a Christian, embrace and look forward to devices that facilitate commerce even if they be physical implants into the body because I embrace and do not disdain technological advancement. I might also say, "Get over yourselves because it's coming and you don't actually have a choice," WHILE ALSO HAVING VALID CONCERNS about things like personal liberty, information security, and government control without incorrectly spiritualizing these matters or incorrectly making the matters of eschatological imminence. I'm not a big fan of implants but that doesn't mean I couldn't be or that it has anything to do with Christianity.

If we can do something to help prevent the almost complete control of our daily lives, by totalitarian government, then I think it's a good idea to do so. If not, then at least forewarned is forearmed.

Take, for example, electric vehicles (EVs). Their production, of course, is driven a great deal by the political agenda of the left BUT there are other influences, such as the marketplace. Business doesn't need political motive to seek profit and new technologies have always been slow to be embraced but whenever and wherever they work and make money they are also inevitable. THAT has nothing to do with politics. My first car was a 1969 Camaro RS/SS. It was that year's Indy Pace Car. Nearly every teenager I knew in the 70s had a muscle car (or a sleeper) and as a result I am a big fan of old autos, their styling, power, and heritage. However, the moment I took my first drive in a Tesla I KNEW the days are waning for combustion engine autos because that car was sleek, powerful, smart, and just plain ol' cool. It has nothing to do with environmentalism or the left side of politics and everything to do with influences outside of either.

Just wait until electric car owners get the bill for their next battery...

And it does not effect my salvation, my faith, nor my Christianity one bit. EVs are most definitely eschatologically significant and in no way indicative of an imminent rapture or millennial kingdom but I'll bet I can find posters who think otherwise. It is not their Christianity that causes such beliefs; it is their Dispensationalism. Those Christians who come from different theological orientations (such a the Covenantal position, for example) may and likely will have a much different perspectives on all things political. The Dominionist is definitely going to do so and the Reconstructionist all the more so. The classic, traditional Dispensationalist, on the other hand, will eschew any involvement in secular affairs - even as the fear-monger, warn, and protest to the contrary. All of which - again - goes to make a case for "people who rarely visit the politics part of the forum should do so," at least a little.



And I'll bet you already knew that.



I'll also wager you agree (and the two of use won't have too much difference theologically or spiritually about the point of the op.



So I'm not b=trying to be snarky when I ask why on earth did you think your post relevant to what I said to the other poster?

That is mostly covered by my first comment in this post.

 

[shnarkle]

There's a thread there... I will get the name of it.. Sorry, I am not so young anymore..

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

It's hard not to focus on the Mark of the Beast when one has already taken the mark. Ironically, God has a mark which distinguishes those who are his as well, yet how many know what that mark is?

One way to see it is to note that those who have God's mark cannot engage in fraudulent commercial transactions. They cannot buy or sell within a corrupt economic system. Those who have taken God's mark have his laws etched into their brains and everything they do is an example of God's law in action.

Those who have taken the mark of the beast don't care that the financial system they're working within is corrupt and Satanic to the core. They think that when it comes time to take a literal mark, tattoo, implanted chip, they will refuse, but it makes no difference to God or Satan because they're already engaging in an unethical, immoral, Satanic system.

 

[David1701]

It's hard not to focus on the Mark of the Beast when one has already taken the mark. Ironically, God has a mark which distinguishes those who are his as well, yet how many know what that mark is?

One way to see it is to note that those who have God's mark cannot engage in fraudulent commercial transactions. They cannot buy or sell within a corrupt economic system. Those who have taken God's mark have his laws etched into their brains and everything they do is an example of God's law in action.

Those who have taken the mark of the beast don't care that the financial system they're working within is corrupt and Satanic to the core. They think that when it comes time to take a literal mark, tattoo, implanted chip, they will refuse, but it makes no difference to God or Satan because they're already engaging in an unethical, immoral, Satanic system.

The Lord's mark...

Ez. 9:4 (WEB) The LORD said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark on the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in its midst.

 

[Josheb]

Fair enough.

I've read some say that the "Great Reset" itself is a conspiracy theory and not real. That is what I thought you meant, from your wording. Thanks for clarifying.



See my above comment, re. Marxism, etc.

I'm concerned about implants, because of the many ramifications (it will likely lead to a cashless society, giving almost complete control over a person's life to the government; the potential to be used for a social credit rating system; the potential to track your every move; the potential to put things in your body that you don't know about, etc.)


I do, but only very occasionally.



They're not exactly the same concerns, but I am concerned about chips in hands, and I've outlined some good reasons above.




If we can do something to help prevent the almost complete control of our daily lives, by totalitarian government, then I think it's a good idea to do so. If not, then at least forewarned is forearmed.



Just wait until electric car owners get the bill for their next battery...




That is mostly covered by my first comment in this post.

What is the topic of this op?

 

[shnarkle]

The Lord's mark...

Ez. 9:4 (WEB) The LORD said to him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark on the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in its midst.

This points out that there is a mark, but alas it doesn't point out what the mark is. We could say the same thing for those who no longer buy and sell within the Satanic system, but again, this only spotlights the mark of the beast.

You're close though. You just need an exhaustive list of "all the abominations", and you need them etched into your mind along with all of God's law.

 

[David1701]

What is the topic of this op?

Chips in people, re. MoB; but I'm not interested in discussing that.

 

[Josheb]

Chips in people, re. MoB...

I read it differently.

Chips in people, re. MoB; but I'm not interested in discussing that.

Me neither, especially since the title of the op is, "People who rarely visit the politics part of the forum should do so" and the opening post specifically exhorts the reader, "If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do...," implanting chips has nothing to do with the mark of the beast, and that interpretation of scripture is literally an invention of thinking solely within the limits of a theology that was literally invented less than 200 years ago.

Might benefit those who think implants are the MoB to visit the politics board of the forum and learn to think independently.

 

[David1701]

I read it differently.

Me neither, especially since the title of the op is, "People who rarely visit the politics part of the forum should do so" and the opening post specifically exhorts the reader, "If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do...," implanting chips has nothing to do with the mark of the beast, and that interpretation of scripture is literally an invention of thinking solely within the limits of a theology that was literally invented less than 200 years ago.

Might benefit those who think implants are the MoB to visit the politics board of the forum and learn to think independently.

Here are what I think are the relevant parts of the OP.

But anyway, it has to do with "them" putting a chip in you, in your brain even!!!!!

sickos rule us

thanks to the spineless ones in Congress Jan 2021

OK, here is the title of the thread​

​

If you have any independent thinking you'd like to do…​

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

The OP is clearly asking if ""them" putting a chip in you..." is leading anyone to think about the MoB. He is also encouraging independent thinking about this.

For what it's worth, I believe that the MoB, in the forehead or hand, is that which signifies the thinking and deeds of the Beast system (Roman Catholicism - the successor to pagan Rome), with its idolatry; its blasphemous "Holy Father", also known as "Pontifex Maximus" (greatest bridge-builder, in a pagan, religious sense); changing times and seasons; repeated "bloodless sacrifice" of Jesus, over and over again; worship of a wafer; persecution of God's people; believing lies and superstitions; building cathedrals from the money of the poor; mediatorial priesthood (not the priesthood of believers); its evil confessional; worship of the Queen of Heaven; works righteousness; warmongering, etc, etc.

 

[Josheb]

Here are what I think are the relevant parts of the OP.


The OP is clearly asking if ""them" putting a chip in you..." is leading anyone to think about the MoB. He is also encouraging independent thinking about this.

For what it's worth, I believe that the MoB, in the forehead or hand, is that which signifies the thinking and deeds of the Beast system (Roman Catholicism - the successor to pagan Rome), with its idolatry; its blasphemous "Holy Father", also known as "Pontifex Maximus" (greatest bridge-builder, in a pagan, religious sense); changing times and seasons; repeated "bloodless sacrifice" of Jesus, over and over again; worship of a wafer; persecution of God's people; believing lies and superstitions; building cathedrals from the money of the poor; mediatorial priesthood (not the priesthood of believers); its evil confessional; worship of the Queen of Heaven; works righteousness; warmongering, etc, etc.

Good morning, David; blessings upon you this fine hot and humid day ,

Yes, I am familiar with your position. You and I have discussed the problem of RCCism many times.

The position the MoB remains something to be witnessed in our future is a view that be reached only by violating at least two core concepts of proper exegesis. The first is to read the text of scripture as written unless the text itself provides an overt reason not to do so and the second is to first understand the text as the original readers would have understood it. In regard to the first, the things described in Revelation are said to be near or at hand, matters that have either already been witnessed, were occurring at the time of its writing, or would follow thereafter. In regard to the latter, even if the MoB were something to occur in our future the options are limited by the understanding of the first century Christian. The "mark" could be a tattoo or a scar or something the first century Christian could have understood. They would not have read Revelation 13:17 to mean computer chip implants. Exegetically speaking, that interpretation borders on delusion! Furthermore, the best means of correctly understanding, or "interpreting," or otherwise identifying the mark is to use other scripture, not conditions that developed long after the fact. T text itself clearly states the mark is the name of name of the second of the two beasts or its number. Not a chip. The chief problem with the view the RCC is the mark is that there was no RCC at the time Revelation was written and neither John nor his original readers would have walked away from the reading thinking, "Oh, he's talking about the Roman Catholic Church." The RCC is a problem in our day, but the mark has nothing specifically to do with that. Proper exegesis precludes such a view.

And that is why Christians should visit the politics board from time to time. If they do so they will see just how much an otherwise marginal set of Christian doctrines (eschatology) has grown to influence the politics of some (many, but by no means the majority), and get exposed to other Christian/scriptural influences besides the very popular but also very problematic Dispensational theologies.


Before responding let me ask you to do something specific: read through what I just posted and give it some thought. My reasoning is sound. So too is my handling of scripture (at least those few to which I alluded). If you can find a specific mistake in my reasoning or exegesis, then point it out. Otherwise accept it as an exegetically and logically sound position. You and/or others may agree, perhaps assert alternatively sound positions but if there are no errors in what I just posted it can (and should) be accepted as sound. Cite the specific error if one exists. Please do not do what so many others do and ignore what is stated, assume things about me or my position not stated, or post ad hominem.

I will say that your view does at least have historical support beginning predominantly with the Reformation, but not so much before then. It is, in that sense, a very Protestant pov.

Anyone thinking Mark of the Beast?

No. Not me.

 

[David1701]

Good morning, David; blessings upon you this fine hot and humid day ,

Yes, I am familiar with your position. You and I have discussed the problem of RCCism many times.

The position the MoB remains something to be witnessed in our future is a view that be reached only by violating at least two core concepts of proper exegesis. The first is to read the text of scripture as written unless the text itself provides an overt reason not to do so and the second is to first understand the text as the original readers would have understood it. In regard to the first, the things described in Revelation are said to be near or at hand, matters that have either already been witnessed, were occurring at the time of its writing, or would follow thereafter. In regard to the latter, even if the MoB were something to occur in our future the options are limited by the understanding of the first century Christian. The "mark" could be a tattoo or a scar or something the first century Christian could have understood. They would not have read Revelation 13:17 to mean computer chip implants. Exegetically speaking, that interpretation borders on delusion! Furthermore, the best means of correctly understanding, or "interpreting," or otherwise identifying the mark is to use other scripture, not conditions that developed long after the fact. T text itself clearly states the mark is the name of name of the second of the two beasts or its number. Not a chip. The chief problem with the view the RCC is the mark is that there was no RCC at the time Revelation was written and neither John nor his original readers would have walked away from the reading thinking, "Oh, he's talking about the Roman Catholic Church." The RCC is a problem in our day, but the mark has nothing specifically to do with that. Proper exegesis precludes such a view.

And that is why Christians should visit the politics board from time to time. If they do so they will see just how much an otherwise marginal set of Christian doctrines (eschatology) has grown to influence the politics of some (many, but by no means the majority), and get exposed to other Christian/scriptural influences besides the very popular but also very problematic Dispensational theologies.


Before responding let me ask you to do something specific: read through what I just posted and give it some thought. My reasoning is sound. So too is my handling of scripture (at least those few to which I alluded). If you can find a specific mistake in my reasoning or exegesis, then point it out. Otherwise accept it as an exegetically and logically sound position. You and/or others may agree, perhaps assert alternatively sound positions but if there are no errors in what I just posted it can (and should) be accepted as sound. Cite the specific error if one exists. Please do not do what so many others do and ignore what is stated, assume things about me or my position not stated, or post ad hominem.

I will say that your view does at least have historical support beginning predominantly with the Reformation, but not so much before then. It is, in that sense, a very Protestant pov.

No. Not me.

The RCC did not exist when Revelation was written; but, pagan Rome did, and the RCC is its religious continuation. The early Church understood that what was keeping the man of sin (a.k.a. the son of perdition) from being revealed, was the Roman Empire.

I didn't say that the RCC was the mark! The RCC is a beast (a prophetic "beast" is a kingdom, or its head, as representing that kingdom).

The so-called "Holy Father" sits as God, in the temple of God (the professing church), claiming the allegiance of every Christian on earth (not to mention kings, presidents and others, who all bow down and kiss his ring).

No, the mark is not a chip; although, there could be a future tie-in between Romanism and chips in hands (it wouldn't surprise me).

Dispensationalism does not pay enough attention to context, so it misunderstands many things.