Pertaining to SDA teaching on those who have died

BigAlanM

Member
Prologue:
AV Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Some are not "high" enough to know, that war is here, and going to get worse before Jesus' second advent.

"The Keys of This Blood" by Catholic Jesuit priest Malachi Martin.

Really now ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
I can't imagine Christ debating doctrine. He presented the truth and moved on. There are people who will never understand the point of the Sabbath, even many Adventists. It's not about a rule God says to keep, any more than the other 9 commandments are. They have to do with our thoughts toward God and our fellow beings, about how we can reflect the character of God. The part of His character that the Sabbath shows us is His desire to be with us, which in turn He hopes will spawn a desire to be with Him. That is as far from legalism as you can get. It's not about some Sunday law or death decree. There may come a day when Sabbath keepers will have to stand up for what they believe, with some severe penalties for doing so.....but if it's just some rule or kept out of legalism or fear, they will fail. The Sabbath was made for man, so He could take the time to commune with God and be more like Him, especially in a sin sick world that seems to demand so much of our time. If we understand that point, and worship Him on the Sabbath in that context, then we can present the doctrine soundly and leave it with God's Spirit to drive home the point, or not, if the receiver rejects the doctrine.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
So are you saying that God judged Enoch, Elijah, and Moses before October 22, 1844?
Judgments(GOD's decisions) are like Resurrections("Moses"). You stated as much, in context.

AV Jn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV 1Pt 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

There are general Resurrections and special Resurrections. So there are general Judgments and special Judgments.

When GOD pours out special judgments in the time of the end, many will blame sabbath keepers for not keeping first/sun day.

That is when the pagans offer live human sacrifices to their gods, for appeasement.

AV Ac 5:1-5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles'feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Hate to tell you this but William Miller turned out to be a false prophet.
That is for GOD to decide about "false prophet". Every prophet was murdered for being a "false prophet." But that was not always true, Right ???
And there you go again with the Sunday Law Death Decree. Conjecture.
"Conjecture.", Is your opinion.

AV Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Prophecy for those that "the Spirit of truth" guides into "all truth".

So when it comes True, will you be an Adventist again ??? You were an SDA long enough to know what happens.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
As I have pointed out to you over and over, Christians are being martyred every day in this the present. For who they worship, not when.
That will be always true.

AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

I worship the GOD of "my holy day" without "speaking [thine own] words", following Jesus' example before "It is finished". Do you as well ???

Even during the Sunday Law Death Decree !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

That will be always true.

AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

I worship the GOD of "my holy day" without "speaking [thine own] words", following Jesus' example before "It is finished". Do you as well ???

Even during the Sunday Law Death Decree !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
Is the 7th day sabbath a ceremonial Law or a festival\feast?
Where in the Bible can you reference the separation of the Law to moral and ceremonial? Who gave permission to separate the Law?
If God separated the Law can you please provide bible defences to the Law being separate?
What I mean is was the 10 commandments and the Book of the Law that was written at the same time two covenants?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Is the 7th day sabbath a ceremonial Law or a festival\feast?
Where in the Bible can you reference the separation of the Law to moral and ceremonial? Who gave permission to separate the Law?
If God separated the Law can you please provide bible defences to the Law being separate?
What I mean is was the 10 commandments and the Book of the Law that was written at the same time two covenants?
AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
AV Hb 9:3-5 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

This is the temple of GOD that Jesus is ministering right NOW !!!

AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This temple holds GOD's testimony of GOD for all mankind.

AV Isa 33:22 For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us.
AV Ja 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
When you judge the law, you judge GOD.

AV 1Jn 3:2-6 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

AV Mt 22:35-38 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

Make up your mind, is Jesus your GOD ??? Nothing you say or think will make Jesus a sinner against GOD concerning GOD's testimony about the sabbath for all mankind.

AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Decalogue is in "the ark of his testament", because that is how Moses copied it. Moses will accuse you of not knowing that, as Jesus' eye witness of Jesus' ministry in the heavenly temple, right now, in front of the Decalogue under the mercy seat !!!

The Decalogue is a covenant that remains in heaven under the "mercyseat" to judge all mankind. That is what separates it from all other law.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Icyspark

Active member
Do SDA's accept that Noah, Jacob, Isaac, the Prophet Daniel and others who died in God's friendship COULD BE conscious and in heaven or do these individuals also have to undergo the Investigative Judgement and wait for the Resurrection of the body?

Thanks

Hi pythons,

Matthew records in his Gospel an account of an unknown, unnamed and unnumbered group of people who were raised from the dead when Christ was resurrected:

Matthew 27:50-53
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

So the answer to your question is, yes, absolutely!

I pray this helps.
 

pythons

Active member
Hi pythons,

Matthew records in his Gospel an account of an unknown, unnamed and unnumbered group of people who were raised from the dead when Christ was resurrected:

Matthew 27:50-53
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

So the answer to your question is, yes, absolutely!

I pray this helps.

Where does it say that that those resurrected folks ascended to Heaven? So you're saying that Matthew 27 provides the possibility that Noah, Abraham, Jacob Isaac the Prophet Daniel and many others of that caliber were raised from the dead and seen in Jerusalem?
 

Icyspark

Active member
Where does it say that that those resurrected folks ascended to Heaven? So you're saying that Matthew 27 provides the possibility that Noah, Abraham, Jacob Isaac the Prophet Daniel and many others of that caliber were raised from the dead and seen in Jerusalem?


Hi pythons,

It doesn't explicitly say that they ascended to Heaven, but that would seem to be the logical implication of such a resurrection.

Of this account Thomas Aquinas writes:

There is usually a question about these people, whether they rose again and died again, or did not die. It is agreed that some have arisen and later died, like Lazarus. But one can say about these people that they rose and did not die again, because they rose for the manifestation of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rising again from the dead, dies now no more (Rom 6:9). Also, if they had risen only to die again, it would not have been a kindness shown them but rather an injury; therefore they rose to enter into heaven with Christ.​
I do not hold Aquinas as an authority, but perhaps you may find his comments meaningful.

I pray this helps.
 

pythons

Active member
Hi pythons,

It doesn't explicitly say that they ascended to Heaven, but that would seem to be the logical implication of such a resurrection.

Of this account Thomas Aquinas writes:

There is usually a question about these people, whether they rose again and died again, or did not die. It is agreed that some have arisen and later died, like Lazarus. But one can say about these people that they rose and did not die again, because they rose for the manifestation of Christ’s resurrection, and it is certain that Christ rising again from the dead, dies now no more (Rom 6:9). Also, if they had risen only to die again, it would not have been a kindness shown them but rather an injury; therefore they rose to enter into heaven with Christ.​
I do not hold Aquinas as an authority, but perhaps you may find his comments meaningful.

I pray this helps.

I don't hold him as an authority but definitely as one worthy of serious consideration. I was aware of his views on this but generally find that Bible Only Christians stop where the Bible stops - they don't think outside the 9 dots whereas questions like this are concerned. I'm frankly surprised you were aware of this. What do you think of what he taught on God not having "parts" ?
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
AV Hb 9:3-5 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

This is the temple of GOD that Jesus is ministering right NOW !!!

AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This temple holds GOD's testimony of GOD for all mankind.

AV Isa 33:22 For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us.
AV Ja 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
When you judge the law, you judge GOD.

AV 1Jn 3:2-6 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

AV Mt 22:35-38 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

Make up your mind, is Jesus your GOD ??? Nothing you say or think will make Jesus a sinner against GOD concerning GOD's testimony about the sabbath for all mankind.

AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Decalogue is in "the ark of his testament", because that is how Moses copied it. Moses will accuse you of not knowing that, as Jesus' eye witness of Jesus' ministry in the heavenly temple, right now, in front of the Decalogue under the mercy seat !!!

The Decalogue is a covenant that remains in heaven under the "mercyseat" to judge all mankind. That is what separates it from all other law.

Yours in Christ, Michael
so the book of the law is not everlasting? And it was separate to the covenant?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Ok I get your logic, where do the Laws on not eating unclean food?
AV Eph 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

"where do the Laws on not eating unclean food?", We need to understand the original context of WHY GOD said it.

Has GOD changed in Holiness to us ???

AV Lv 11:45-47 For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy. 46 This [is] the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

AV 1Pt 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Peter quotes GOD's words in context to unclean and clean.

AV Ac 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Do you understand, why this quote is here ???

AV 1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Paul's version.

There is more in context to judgment, if you need more.

This is really simply, show me where GOD changed "holiness", in GOD's own words ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Eph 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

"where do the Laws on not eating unclean food?", We need to understand the original context of WHY GOD said it.

Has GOD changed in Holiness to us ???

AV Lv 11:45-47 For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy. 46 This [is] the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

AV 1Pt 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Peter quotes GOD's words in context to unclean and clean.

AV Ac 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Do you understand, why this quote is here ???

AV 1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Paul's version.

There is more in context to judgment, if you need more.

This is really simply, show me where GOD changed "holiness", in GOD's own words ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
So the laws about the clean and unclean food are in Leviticus ate they found in the book of the Law which was on the outside of the ark of the covenant? I’m just asking a simple question on this so I get where you are before we get to they why
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
I'm frankly surprised you were aware of this.
We are aware of what we read. Just do not expect us to believe it all. This goes both ways.
What do you think of what he taught on God not having "parts" ?
AV Gn 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This would be a great discussion in silence. Image list in GOD's words compared to the image list of Mary's, when Jesus was born.

AV Lk 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Jesus' circumcision has the inventory of parts complete without needing much imagination.

AV Jn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

So you do not believe Jesus' testimony about the Father ???

Be careful, of implying Jesus lied !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Gn 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Are we going to second guess GOD's Omniscience purposes in an unfallen newly created world now ???
So the laws about the clean and unclean food are in Leviticus ate they found in the book of the Law which was on the outside of the ark of the covenant? I’m just asking a simple question on this so I get where you are before we get to they why
AV Gn 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that [are] not clean by two, the male and his female.

Are you going to claim what GOD did as a ritual now, before Moses had copied a covenant ???

"So the laws about the clean and unclean food are in Leviticus ate they found in the book of the Law which was on the outside of the ark of the covenant?", Sin is part of GOD's permissive free will, until all sin is destroyed. Please do not dismiss the eschatology of sin, so easily.

We will eat neither clean or unclean flesh meats in heaven. No one will ever violate/sin against the Decalogue after sin is ALL DESTROYED.

AV Lv 11:45-47 For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy. 46 This [is] the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

This is GOD's testimony, it is your choice to follow it. Unless you can prove GOD ate unclean things, ever ???

AV Isa 66:15-17 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

This is a judgment text. Judgment will be made for the the saints, and against the unrepentant sinner's. So I need to ask, is GOD a hypocrite in your thinking in GOD's own actions ???

AV Jn 8:42-47 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

Who sinned first, "the devil" or "Adam & Eve" who were told a lie ???

AV Re 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

"the everlasting gospel" or IOW, "The eschatology of sin" explains a few important principles, that GOD uses.

AV Gn 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
AV Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
AV Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

When there is no sin, no gospel is needed, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Gn 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Are we going to second guess GOD's Omniscience purposes in an unfallen newly created world now ???

AV Gn 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that [are] not clean by two, the male and his female.

Are you going to claim what GOD did as a ritual now, before Moses had copied a covenant ???

"So the laws about the clean and unclean food are in Leviticus ate they found in the book of the Law which was on the outside of the ark of the covenant?", Sin is part of GOD's permissive free will, until all sin is destroyed. Please do not dismiss the eschatology of sin, so easily.

We will eat neither clean or unclean flesh meats in heaven. No one will ever violate/sin against the Decalogue after sin is ALL DESTROYED.

AV Lv 11:45-47 For I [am] the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I [am] holy. 46 This [is] the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

This is GOD's testimony, it is your choice to follow it. Unless you can prove GOD ate unclean things, ever ???

AV Isa 66:15-17 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

This is a judgment text. Judgment will be made for the the saints, and against the unrepentant sinner's. So I need to ask, is GOD a hypocrite in your thinking in GOD's own actions ???

AV Jn 8:42-47 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

Who sinned first, "the devil" or "Adam & Eve" who were told a lie ???

AV Re 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

"the everlasting gospel" or IOW, "The eschatology of sin" explains a few important principles, that GOD uses.

AV Gn 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
AV Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
AV Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

When there is no sin, no gospel is needed, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
You haven’t answered a straight forward question you’ve become defensive about something I’m not aware of. I’m asking if the Laws are separated and from what you have said the Decalogue is the only one eternally binding. Are the laws about clean and unclean food in the book of the law?
it’s a simple yes or no.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
You haven’t answered a straight forward question you’ve become defensive about something I’m not aware of. I’m asking if the Laws are separated and from what you have said the Decalogue is the only one eternally binding. Are the laws about clean and unclean food in the book of the law?
it’s a simple yes or no.
Okay, Let me be clear for you:

AV Dt 31:26-27 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

You are making a bulk assumption over everything in the Law, on the side of the Ark, that can not be covered with "a simple yes or no".

GOD's own words(testimony) are eternally binding to GOD and to GOD's people as Law.

AV 1C 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

If you want to murmur your opinion about shadows, go for it, it will not get anyone anywhere with GOD's Omniscience.

AV Hb 3:18-4:2 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

"shadows" are about the Gospel fulfillment in types to anti-types.

AV Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Clean/unclean are sins, an object of the purpose of the Gospel.

Both are in the Law "in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God". So a bulk yes or no, does not fit GOD's will.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Okay, Let me be clear for you:

AV Dt 31:26-27 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

You are making a bulk assumption over everything in the Law, on the side of the Ark, that can not be covered with "a simple yes or no".

GOD's own words(testimony) are eternally binding to GOD and to GOD's people as Law.

AV 1C 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

If you want to murmur your opinion about shadows, go for it, it will not get anyone anywhere with GOD's Omniscience.

AV Hb 3:18-4:2 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

"shadows" are about the Gospel fulfillment in types to anti-types.

AV Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Clean/unclean are sins, an object of the purpose of the Gospel.

Both are in the Law "in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God". So a bulk yes or no, does not fit GOD's will.

Yours in Christ, Michael
So i am clear both are in the Law which is the covenant?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
So i am clear both are in the Law which is the covenant?
AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament{G1242 diatheke, covenant, testament}, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Jesus said "the covenant" is "for the remission of sins" or AKA the Gospel.

AV 1Jn 3:1-6 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

When "the law" defines sins. The Gospel is the remedy for sin. The Gospel defines sin, as well.

AV Hb 9:15-22 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Part of the spiritual contract language by GOD.

There is a part of "the covenant" that defines sin, for the agreement to take place.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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