Pertaining to SDA teaching on those who have died

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
If you think everything about Christianity and what Jesus & the Apostles did is recorded in what the Historic Christian Church told you is Sacred Scripture you should read and ponder John 21, 25 & 2nd Thessalonians 2, 15.
AV Jn 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
AV Jn 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

So it seems, understanding Jesus' words are an issue for many.

AV Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

But many can and will invest their eisegesis into the words of men's narrative, as argumentum ex silentio.

AV 2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

But many can and will invest their eisegesis into the words of Paul. So which "the traditions" "whether by word, or our epistle" is being referenced ???

AV 2Pt 3:15-16 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I think it's important that we compare and contrast the words of GOD as first precedence of Truth, to all others of the Bible writers.

AV 1Pt 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just{G1342 dikaios} for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Can anyone prove Jesus to be a first/sun day keeper, from scriptures ???

Strong's G1849 said:
G1849 exousia ex-oo-see'-ah
from G1832 (in the sense of ability);
privilege, i.e. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence.
KJV: authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.
AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

What do you think, "nor speaking [thine own] words" are a warning to all of GOD's people, in truth of precedence from GOD's authority ???

AV Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

How difficult is it, to understand and identify an "all the world" with "power{G1849 exousia}"

AV Re 13:6-7 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power{G1849 exousia} was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Who has authority{G1849 exousia} to negate GOD's authority in blasphemy in this "war with the saints" ???

Letter from C.F. Thomas; Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons on October 28 1895 said:
Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act…And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
Let see, can anyone show a world wide quote expressing this "power{G1849 exousia}" ???

A world wide first/sun day law with Death Decree does fit as evidence, to the context of war with GOD and GOD's people, when it happens, Right ???

From the point of view of many, I am wrong until it happens, Right ??? When it happens, many are wrong, Right ??? Is that how prophesy works ???

We are all running out of time, before implementation of the mark of the beast, upon "all the world".

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

pythons

Active member
SDA said:
So it seems, understanding Jesus' words are an issue for many.

Yes, MANY Sadducees took issue with Jesus saying that at death an individuals spirit went to a good or bad place.

SDA said:
But many can and will invest their eisegesis into the words of men's narrative, as argumentum ex silentio.

2nd Maccabees 15, 12
And this was his vision: That Onias, who had been high priest, a virtuous and a good man, reverend in conversation, gentle in condition, well spoken also, and exercised from a child in all points of virtue, holding up his hands prayed for the whole body of the Jews. This done, in like manner there appeared a man with gray hairs, and exceeding glorious, who was of a wonderful and excellent majesty. Then Onias answered, saying, This is a lover of the brethren, who prayeth much for the people, and for the holy city, to wit, Jeremias the prophet of God.

That's two dead guys praying for Israel. Any Jewish or Christian historian would be dishonest if they claimed that it wasn't a common Jewish understanding that the soul upon death was conscious. Any Jewish or Christian historian would also be dishonest if it wasn't understood in Judaism that holy men of Israel didn't offer up prayers in the afterlife. This was the faith that Jesus was raised in and the fact that Jesus rebuked the Sadducees and confirmed the teaching of the Pharisees in this area dispels your argument that Jesus was an advocate of the Doctrine of soul sleeping. It refutes it soundly.

Additionally, your quotation of 2nd Peter 3, 15 -15 is odd given that Ellen White rebuked Christians and claimed they hated Jesus when they rebuked William Miller for claiming he had cracked the date for Jesus's return on a specific date. Remember, Ellen was exercising her alleged gift of prophecy at the same time she was categorically rebuking the Trinity Doctrine and glorifying individuals who also rebuked the Trinity Doctrine. Talk about the unstable wresting the Scriptures to their own destruction.

You have nothing to offer that Catholicism is the papacy aside from the conjecture of anti-Trinitarians who themselves militantly advocated the doctrine of antichrist.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Additionally, your quotation of 2nd Peter 3, 15 -15 is odd given that Ellen White rebuked Christians and claimed they hated Jesus when they rebuked William Miller for claiming he had cracked the date for Jesus's return on a specific date. Remember, Ellen was exercising her alleged gift of prophecy at the same time she was categorically rebuking the Trinity Doctrine and glorifying individuals who also rebuked the Trinity Doctrine. Talk about the unstable wresting the Scriptures to their own destruction.
I will need references to sources you are alluding too, Please !!! And Thank You !!!
You have nothing to offer that Catholicism is the papacy aside from the conjecture of anti-Trinitarians who themselves militantly advocated the doctrine of antichrist.
Many use the Doctrine on the Trinity, as an authority wedge over other believers, to control other areas of belief.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

pythons

Active member
I will need references to sources you are alluding too, Please !!! And Thank You !!!

Many use the Doctrine on the Trinity, as an authority wedge over other believers, to control other areas of belief.

Yours in Christ, Michael

I'll make this easier for you by saying that the Book of Maccabees is representative of a devout Jewish persons beliefs at the time of Christ AND would have been representative of the Faith Jesus and His Disciples would have been raised up in. Find me ONE Biblical historian who would disagree with that.

I'm not using the Trinity as a weapon here, I'm simply saying that non - Trinitarians claim that Jesus could have sinned, you shouldn't eat food condemned by Jewish dietary law AND in soul sleep. This is just a fact.
 

JonHawk

Active member
AV Ac 3:19-20 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess 1
 
As a Seventh-day Adventist you believe Ellen White exorcised the spiritual gift of Prophecy, that when Ellen said God "shew" her or made known to her such and such that its a given that's the way it is, right?

According to Ellen White she took a trip to heaven post 1844 and prior to 1847 where she not only had discussions with Jesus but visited with Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Prophet Daniel and MANY OTHERS like them. In addition to that she claimed she visited with people there who had been slain for believing in Jesus and that there were little Children who had been slain.







The climax of the trip was when Jesus ushered Ellen into a great dining hall with an incredible spread on the table and Ellen was getting ready to DIG IN but Jesus stopped her & said she couldn't eat anything CUZ if she did she couldn't return to planet earth and continue the work. So Ellen had to leave that incredible gravy train to Noah, Abraham, Daniel, etc. who I'm sure made short work of the feast.



The point I'm making here is that the historic Christian Church maintains that those who die in Christ at death go to be with Christ and that they are conscious. The Historic Christian Church stops short of saying the saints in heaven are attending feasts at tables that are miles long as well as saints flapping their wings and flying to mountain tops.

Ellen White, if you can admit it or not, just said martyrs and Old Testament saints were ALREADY IN HEAVEN before she [Ellen] took her star trek with Jesus there. How does this work? Did Jesus give Ellen this vision prior to the SDA's adopting soul sleep?
Hello, I was hoping you could provide me, for my future use if required, the link to the Ellen White info you provided? I thank you for your time.
 

pythons

Active member
Hello, I was hoping you could provide me, for my future use if required, the link to the Ellen White info you provided? I thank you for your time.

Sure, for specifically Ellen White go here: https://www.ellenwhite.info/search-egw-database.htm

Ellen White wrote many articles in the SDA Sabbath Herald and other SDA Publications - you can search all of them here: https://documents.adventistarchives.org/default.aspx

For anything I have posted you simply need to type about half a sentence in either search window and the engine will direct you to where those things appeared in the SDA Paper or books written by White.
 
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