Philip makes a request to Jesus: "Show us the Father."

Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
imJRR said:
Philip makes a request to Jesus: "Show us the Father."
Now, contextually, Philip is a Jew.
That means that for Philip the words "the Father" can only refer to one thing - there can be only one meaning for the phrase:
The phrase "the Father" means God Himself.
Philip wants to see God Himself.
There is no other possible way to understand his request.
This is irrefutable.
Click to expand...

I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks


I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
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I

imJRR

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
D) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
E) other, please fill in the blanks


I say D since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Click to expand...

With all due respect - I honestly and truly believe that I have clarified what Jesus said in John 14:7-9. I'm not saying your request is not worth pursuing, but perhaps another poster will respond.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
imJRR said:
With all due respect - I honestly and truly believe that I have clarified what Jesus said in John 14:7-9. I'm not saying your request is not worth pursuing, but perhaps another poster will respond.
Click to expand...

I will take that to mean you are UNABLE to answer the question...

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks

Are there ANY Trinitarians who CAN answer the question.

I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
 
I

imJRR

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I will take that to mean you are UNABLE to answer the question...

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks

Are there ANY Trinitarians who CAN answer the question.

I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
Click to expand...

(shrug) You can take it that way if you wish. You'd be 100% wrong in that, but I have no control over how you take things, and seriously could not care less how you view me. I simply find your request and post to be meaningless side-tracking. I have enough to do already.
 
W

Woody50

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
Overrated, imo, but I'm not a hater.
Click to expand...
I must agree with you. I prefer the NASB, but when I read it to my kids and wife, the eyebrows go up and they look at me as if they were hit with the confundus charm.

Yes. My wife loves Harry Potter.

Anyway, I like the ESV, but it has MANY failings--as all English translations do. God saves with His Word--praise Him!--but I keep wondering if there's a better version out there. There isn't.

Which do you prefer, D?
 
W

Woody50

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
My favorite English translation I've found is the New Jerusalem Bible. Once you remove the British-isms, it's the most natural sounding English. The NIV is underrated and unnecessarily looked down on, but stick with the older version of it. My main for referencing is still usually the NKJV. The most accurate version I've found is Rotherham's Emphasized Bible, but it's a bit hard to read. I'm actually in the process of making a paraphrase myself.
Click to expand...
Good for you! It still won't work.
Dizerner said:
(I don't wanna be "that guy" but Harry Potter glorifies witchcraft. Time to be a spiritual leader!)
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. You're that guy. Keep drinking milk, though.
 
W

Woody50

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
Thanks for providing it.



If there's one thing I'm sure about... it's you don't make sense. :)

But God bless you anyway.
Click to expand...
Why do I need to explain to you about drinking milk? You seem a decent fellow. You also seem to bloviate about a lot and not listen (or read) what others say (or write). I was cogent and intelligent in my responses to you, yet all you seem to be able to say is that you don't understand. Whose fault is that? Yours.

Blessings, oh slow one.
 
W

Woody50

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
You seem to be able to say that I don't understand.
Click to expand...
I am able to say that because it's true.
Dizerner said:
yet all you seem to be able to say is that? You also seem a decent fellow. You seem to bloviate about drinking milk? Why am I cogent, a decent, and then you bloviate about drinking milk? You seem to be about drinking milk?
Click to expand...
Tell me, do you know what I'm talking about when I say you drink milk?
 
W

Woody50

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
Oh, WOW, I never had the faintest inkling of an idea that you might have meant that verse.

Man.

You got me, you obviously have moved on from the milk of humility and the fruit of the Spirit into the meat of a prideful argumentative attitude. Maybe your meat is actually just flesh.
Click to expand...
You lose and you have no idea what I’m talking about. Proof positive.

keep drinking milk, dufus.
 
A

aeg4971

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks


I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Click to expand...
I answer that A thru D carries with it the same in meaning as is with E. Why your modern humanism cannot comprehend this, I will never know.

Hope that helps......Alan
 
A

aeg4971

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks


I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Click to expand...
I answer that A thru D carries with it the same in meaning as it is with E. Why your modern humanism cannot comprehend this, I will never know. Nevertheless you should then take A thru D to indeterminately signifiy the determinate manner of E.

Hope that helps......Alan
 
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A

aeg4971

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks


I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Click to expand...
I answer that A thru D carries with it the same in meaning as it is with E. Why your modern humanism cannot comprehend this, I will never know. Nevertheless you should then take A thru D to indeterminately signify the determinate manner of E.

Hope that helps......Alan
 
A

aeg4971

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
I have a question to clarify what you think "the Father" and "God Himself" means.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

TRINITARIANS, which of these statements BEST reflects the meaning of what Jesus said?

A) He that hath seen Jesus' human nature hath seen Jesus' divine nature.
B) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the divine Being.
C) He that hath seen the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the first Person of the Trinity.
D) He that hath seen the attributes of the second Person of the Trinity hath seen the attributes of the first Person of the Trinity.
E) He that hath seen GOD incarnate hath seen eternal GOD.
F) other, please fill in the blanks


I say E since this is how I describe the distinctions between GOD, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Click to expand...
I answer that A thru D carries with it the same in meaning as it is with E. Why your modern humanism cannot comprehend this, I will never know. Nevertheless you should then take A thru D to indeterminately signify the determinate manner of E.

Hope that helps......Alan
 
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