Philippians 2:12-13... What does it mean?

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Does God work through their obedience, or does God work it in them enabling them to obey?
There is a responsibility on the part of the saints.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
 

Sketo

Well-known member
There is a responsibility on the part of the saints.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The question is would they “Do”, without “God working in them to do”?
 

Iconoclast

Active member
There is a responsibility on the part of the saints.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Yes PG,
I believe God working in us is a given among bible believers. The Holy Spirit is not just an observer by rather gifts and enables us to serve God.
We are to love God, and our neighbor,Rom13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are unprofitable servants.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
. It is your Calvinistic heretical thinking that is leading you in that direction. The “working” part is something that requires a genuine effort on our part, as previously discussed. It is not something that just happens to you whether you like it or not because you have “believed”.
Hello Zerinus,
We have not interacted before. Could you clarify for me what you are referring to with this statement?
What do you think is this heretical belief? What is your main concern?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Hello Zerinus,
We have not interacted before. Could you clarify for me what you are referring to with this statement?
I believe we have interacted before on or two times, but not often. That passage is part of a larger context, and is best understood within that context.
What do you think is this heretical belief? What is your main concern?
I am not a Calvinist, and I disagree with all aspects of Calvinist theology, including predestination, “faith alone,” TULIP, “once saved always saved,” the whole lot.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Interesting... where would you assume “faith” in this passage when it does not say the word “faith”?
I used the word “faith” as an abbreviation for the bit that says “God who works in you, both to will and to work,” and I think that it was a good abbreviation.
Not “willy nilly”... but it does seam to suggest that whatever “God works in you” results in you “working out your salvation”!
That is the expected Calvinistic interpretation, which is not correct. The correct explanation is the one I gave, which I think is clear enough not to require further explanation.
Are you suggesting that faith results in one “genuinely” “working out there own salvation”?
Not quite. Faith provides the impetus, the drive, the motivation for “working out there own salvation”.
Would “belief” result in one “working out there salvation”?
Could “belief” be what “God works in you”... and that results in one “working out there salvation”?
No, you got that the wrong way round. The act of God “working in you” is a miracle that God performs in your life because of your faith. All miracles are performed by faith, and this one is no exception. It is your faith that not only motivates you to “work out your salvation” before God, but also what motivates God to operate in your life, “both to will and to work” etc.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
I used the word “faithas an abbreviation for the bit that saysGod who works in you, both to will and to work,” and I think that it was a good abbreviation.
I agree!


For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,
so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:12-13
 

Sketo

Well-known member
You assume irresistible “Do”?
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13

What part of “God works in you to will to work” suggests that it can be resisted?

What are you going to use to resist with???... your “otherwill???
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13

What part of “God works in you to will to work” suggests that it can be resisted?

What are you going to use to resist with???... your “otherwill???
Who is the 'you'; those who obey. Does God irresistibly work in those christians who disobey?
 

Iconoclast

Active member
I believe we have interacted before on or two times, but not often. That passage is part of a larger context, and is best understood within that conte you are coming fromext.

I am not a Calvinist, and I disagree with all aspects of Calvinist theology, including predestination, “faith alone,” TULIP, “once saved always saved,” the whole lot.
Okay but I order to understand where you are coming from what are you reading? Is there a podcast you are listening to? A pastor who teaches against the teaching?
Have you read from those who believe these teaching, like the puritans?the reformers?
Is this from your own study?
What are your thoughts on predestination?
Are you a Roman Catholic? Where do you fellowship? Thanks in advance.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Who is the 'you'; those who obey.
They obey because “it is God who works in you, both to will and to work

“Gods work in them” is the reason they “will and work”!

“Gods work in them” is the reason they “obey”!

That’s what the verse says!!!

Does God irresistibly work in those christians who disobey?
The verse does not allow for this assumption!

disobey” is the opposit of “will and work”!

will and work” = “obey


Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,
so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philippians 2:12-13
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Okay but I order to understand where you are coming from what are you reading? Is there a podcast you are listening to? A pastor who teaches against the teaching?
Have you read from those who believe these teaching, like the puritans?the reformers?
Is this from your own study?
What are your thoughts on predestination?
Are you a Roman Catholic? Where do you fellowship? Thanks in advance.
Calvinist literature is extensive, and if I wanted to read a fraction of it I would have to build a library. But I don't think that is necessary. I have debated with Calvinists quite a lot over the years, and in the process I have gained quite a bit of experience learning their doctrines. I have also watches quite a lot of videos of their conferences and debates on YouTube, all of which has given me a good idea of their basic theological beliefs. But ultimately the source of all Christian theology is the Bible, which is what I defer to.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
They obey because “it is God who works in you, both to will and to work

“Gods work in them” is the reason they “will and work”!

“Gods work in them” is the reason they “obey”!

That’s what the verse says!!!
God works in those who obey to will and to do in regards to working their own salvation.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


The verse does not allow for this assumption!
Logical conclusion; does God work in the believers who disobey?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
God works in those who obey to will and to do in regards to working their own salvation.
What is this twisting??? What is the “to will and to do” if not obeying?in the first place? Yourwho obey” is an unnecessary addition... unnecessary!
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Your addition is not found... and is unnecessary!
Logical conclusion; does God work in the believers who disobey?
Impossible! Category error!

If God works in they will and do!

The verse does not allow your insertion!
 
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